Foreign Affairs Committee on March 23rd, 2011

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you, Mr. Goldring.

I'll move over to Mr. Dewar for the last question in the first round.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you to our guests. Along with others, I want to again express condolences for the loss of Mr. Gallagher and Mr. Coates. I think we were all taken by that. We were taken by all the deaths, but when it was people who were serving, who had served with our nation's emblem on it, it really did hit home. I certainly know that in the local area.

Maybe for the policing aspect first, one of the things that we have looked at in this committee, and generally some of us have looked at, is the innovation in terms of policing. We're always innovating here in terms of how it's done. Every community is different. Community-based policing is something that has been innovated in the last while.

I note when we have sent people overseas, we have provided police women to help train. I'm thinking now of Sudan--as a matter of fact Darfur. I'm just wondering where women fit into this rubric. Do we have women training at this point, and if so, how many? Could you tell us a bit more about that, if there is any of it going on?

[A/Commr Mike Cabana]

Absolutely. Actually, thank you very much. It's an excellent question again.

Women play a very significant and important role in our deployment. Actually, Canada, up until very recently was the country that was providing the most women police officers. Since between February 2009 and this past February, we have deployed 34 French-speaking women police officers.

To go back to Madam Deschamps' question, the UN actually appointed one of them, Sylvia De Sousa, from the Montreal Police to develop specifically a program to deal with gender violence within the camps. So Canadian women police officers play a very important role.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I'm glad to hear you mention that, in particular, looking at gender violence. As we heard, part of the concern coming out of the aftermath of the earthquake was around gender violence. There was some news reporting on that.

It sounds like this is a bit nascent, the appointment of a Canadian by the UN. Is their role to train women as well as to look at community-based solutions and service to women directly?

[A/Commr Mike Cabana]

Actually, it's very much both. The role was to develop a specific specialized UN training module that would be used, or is being used actually, to train women police officers who are being deployed in support of the UN mission, MINUSTAH.

Another component was also an outreach to the female population within the camps to provide them with enhanced awareness. The other component, which I spoke about, was increasing the abilities of the local police force in how to resolve and deal with some of these gender violence issues. The program or the initiative was so successful that the UN now will be implementing that training module for all missions.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I know there's some speculation around here that we might not get this report done because of an election, but this is important for us, as we study this, to have as evidence for recommendations.

I think one of the recommendations we'd like to look at is enhancing that program, about which I think you've given evidence it has worked in light of the UN recognition. I know Canada has innovated here, and I mentioned Sudan, and obviously there's a bigger need for this. Would you agree?

[A/Commr Mike Cabana]

Yes, I agree.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Okay.

Maybe on the other side of things, the corrections side or companion...in terms of the same type of question, do we know how many women are incarcerated?

[Marty Maltby]

I don't have a current figure, but I do have an approximate figure. One women's facility holds around 250 women at this point. In some of the more regional facilities there are a small number of women who would be housed in male facilities, but the majority of them would be in Pétionville, which is the female institution. So you're looking at about 300 right now; you might have another 100 to 150, I would say, within the other regions.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Do we have Canadian women who are training?

[Marty Maltby]

Absolutely, our contingent of 16 is almost half women, to be honest with you.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Okay.

[Marty Maltby]

The other contributing countries don't quite meet the same ratio, but last I heard, a significant number of women are working as part of the correctional unit.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Just a question about coordination. It's always difficult. I remember when I was in the Congo, looking at the UN peacekeeping mission there and looking at the number of different countries, they literally can't speak to each other, and they have different practices, etc. But in terms of coordination, are there some issues there that we should be aware of, things that need to be tightened? Their whole issue right now is about governance; everyone is waiting for a government, quite literally. In terms of how things are coordinated on the ground, is there a need for more coordination? If so, do you have recommendations on how that could be improved?

[Marty Maltby]

Do you mean coordination within the unit itself?

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Absolutely.

[Marty Maltby]

Or most different UN agencies, or both?

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Both, but I'm thinking about where you do your work. If you want to give a wider view, fine.

[Marty Maltby]

I'll be honest with you, I would say pre-earthquake there was coordination between UN agencies, and the different areas of the corrections piece were somewhat fractured. I think the earthquake probably reunited a lot of that. From the last report we heard at a presentation from the head of the corrections unit from MINUSTAH, that coordination, particularly between the UN and the UNDP, the development program, is very strong right now. So I think while it's a tragic event, it has created a blessing in that sense.

[A/Commr Mike Cabana]

I would tend to agree with my colleague. Following the earthquake, there was a reorganization of the police component of MINUSTAH with a refocus on operations and coordination. There's always room for improvement, but I would say it's probably a little bit better than it was before.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much, Mr. Dewar.

I think we've got time for two quick rounds.

Ms. Brown for five minutes, and then Mr. Pearson for five minutes.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Gentlemen, thank you very much for being here.

Mr. Cabana, I'm very proud to have a very large contingent of RCMP officers in the riding of Newmarket--Aurora. So thank you for the good work you do.

A question to each of you, and it probably interrelates, so how you answer this I leave to your discretion.

Mr. Cabana, you said that since 2004 over 500 Canadian police officers have been in Haiti. You said later on that under UNPOL they've assisted with the development of community policing programs. Where did you start from when you arrived there? Are there benchmarks that we've been able to create? Can you tell us about what progress we've had? Recognizing that the earthquake I'm sure has interrupted a great deal of that, could you talk about where we're at with that?

Mr. Maltby, you said that the correctional expertise of CSC staff members is well recognized internationally. I wonder if you could tell us why. What is it specifically about the Canadian expertise that is making a change in Haiti? Are we having an influence? Other actors are participants there, I'm sure. Do we have the lead on this?

[Marty Maltby]

In terms of why CSC's reputation is what it is internationally, I think we strike a balance here in Canada for our prison perspective. One is between humane treatment of inmates, offenders, prisoners, whatever you want call them, and the other is the whole notion around reintegration and rehabilitation. For a lot of jurisdictions the balance isn't the same as it would be here in Canada.

Part of the challenge and part of what I think works in Haiti, or seems to work, is what we call here in Canada dynamic security. Being able to be in the prison population, being able to walk among them, working in the cells, finding out what's going on, having a bit of an understanding of intelligence--humanizing, for lack of a better term, the whole prison experience.

It's a difficult thing to do in Haiti. Is progress being made? I know prior to the earthquake there definitely was. Infrastructure and numbers notwithstanding, I'm sure that continues. I think we have a significant amount of leadership in the UN mission, partly because the leader of the correctional team is a Canadian correctional staff member. She definitely has provided a significant amount of leadership there.

The other thing is we do have a long-standing history with Haiti. The head of the administration, as well as a number of his senior managers, spent a fair bit of time with us in the late 1990s and 2000 learning about the Canadian way to do corrections. So I think we are providing leadership and a bit of an edge there.

[A/Commr Mike Cabana]

In terms of community policing, you're right about the difficulties in implementing community policing. But we cannot forget the fact that because of the position we occupy in mission, we're able to influence the training syllabus of the Haitian National Police. The community policing concept has been in existence in Canada for many, many years. Over the course of those years we have developed a certain expertise in how to implement it, and it was a matter of transposing that to the training regime within the HNP.

As far as the benchmark and being able to measure, there is no specific benchmark to the implementation of community policing; the benchmarks are more in line with the reform plan from 2006.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Is there an acceptance of the Canadian pedagogy of policing? Are they willing to take that on?