Foreign Affairs Committee on Feb. 12th, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

That's all the time we have.

We're going to move to Mr. McKay. Sir, you have seven minutes.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you both for coming.

It's disappointing, Minister, that you haven't had time to visit with Mr. Fowler over the last few months, and you're relying on what he says publicly rather than what he might say privately, because he's clearly one of Canada's most experienced and respected diplomats and is very knowledgeable about the area.

Relying on what Mr. Fowler has said publicly—and I'm sure your assistants have told you what he said today—his views are that Canada needs to be significantly more engaged in this conflict, not only for the stabilization of Mali, but for the larger region, and also internationally, and that you need to be very focused on what you're trying to accomplish when you engage in Mali.

Minister, what are Canada's military goals in Mali?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Our only military goal in Mali at this point is to support a close friend, a close ally, France. France made the unilateral decision to undertake a military mission. They asked for Canada's support, and we considered it expeditiously and responded positively. Today, that is the only mission.

Others want us to send Canadian troops into Mali, and we have said no to boots on the ground.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Have you been asked to extend the C-17 mission?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Not at this time, but if they do—

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Friday is coming up in a few days.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

They requested a C-17 on a Saturday, and the Prime Minister consulted widely within the government. We reached out to both of the opposition leaders and announced it on the Monday. We've extended it at their request. If they ask again—

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

So maybe by Thursday at midnight we'll know whether we're going to have a C-17 extension?

The second question has to do with the—

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

So much for not making these issues political.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

—trainers who the EU are going to send. Is Canada going to participate in that?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Can you repeat that? Sorry.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

The trainers.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

We've not made a decision on whether to provide training.

I would have some concern with providing training to a military that undertook a military coup and overthrew a democratically elected government weeks before an election, when the president wasn't even re-elected.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Presumably, the trainers are for the African troops, to whom you and I both agree is where the hand-off should go. If, in fact, you're not assisting AFISMA and the EU, or the UN mission, how is it you therefore think that when France rightly withdraws, which you and I would agree to, they're going to be prepared for handling what is an insurgency, a terrorist force, a threat to the region, a threat to the EU, and a threat to the world?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

There was a request for financial assistance, there was a request for military training, and there was a request from some members of the committee that we send troops on the ground. We've said no to the latter and we'll reflect on the first two.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

When do you expect to make a decision with respect to financing? Is that imminent?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

We'll let you know when we do.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

I'm sure our partners would like to know sooner rather than later, so they too can prepare for whatever—

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Each country will make its own decisions in their own timeline. We'll take the time to thoughtfully consider where the financial assistance would go, who it would go to train, and what guarantees there would be that there would be values and ethics in terms of a military presence on the ground.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

I have a final question before I pass it over to my colleague.

What diplomatic pressure is Canada exerting on Mali to achieve what I would argue is a very optimistic goal of a democracy by July?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

We've been very outspoken and have used a significant amount of diplomatic pressure with the embassy here and on the ground through our mission in Bamako. We are pleased with the announcement of the road map and a commitment to go to elections by this summer. Having said that, I wouldn't take it to the bank.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Thank you, and I thank my colleague.

Thank you, Ministers, for coming.

Previously, some of your members on this committee alluded to polls that Canadians had about involvement in Mali, Africa. Minister, you alluded to your good people on the ground and in Foreign Affairs. I just hope that your government is not driven by polls on what we do in some of these areas and that you take advice from diplomats and people on the ground.

It's good to see Mr. Obhrai here. Mr. Obhrai and I travelled to Mali a few years ago. We had a good sense of the importance of Canada to Mali in how we've participated there right up to the present time. We had ambassadors here, and the ambassador from Mali was here. They were very concerned about the presence that Canada has on the ground. You alluded to how they dropped their CIDA office in Niger. There's no CIDA office in Mali.

There's a concern about going forward. Yes, humanitarian aid is all right now, but what happens...? Canada is so important to the future of Mali. Where are we going to be? What specifically will your government do to help them? We helped them a lot with funding for education, health, and various things like that, which we're not really funding right now. And what are your plans in helping them with long-term development? That was brought up with the Mali ambassador, that is, the concern that we don't have anybody on the ground.

When this so-called transition happens, there's a major concern that we're not going to be ready to fill that void that we always filled with the Malians before.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Minister, we've got about a minute left, just to frame your answer.

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

Very quickly, Mr. Chairman, just as a correction of the record, we did have a CIDA office in Mali. Due to security and safety concerns we brought those people out, but we were on the ground. Our people are in close proximity and are still engaged in working through other NGOs and so forth. We're still plugged in, certainly on the humanitarian side.

In a broader sense, there are some conditions, expectations, and accountabilities that we want to see take place. Minister Baird alluded to the whole notion of stability, the renewal of democracy, and all those kinds of issues. Certainly, we're going to be there for the people. Certainly, we're there on the humanitarian front, and we are indeed committed to ensuring that Mali returns to the progress it was making towards democratic governance.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you.

That's all the time we have, Mr. Eyking.

We're going to move it over and start the second round for five minutes.

Mr. Dechert, five minutes, sir.