Evidence of meeting #4 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was munitions.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
I think the general has already answered that side of it.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
That's time.
We'll wrap it up with Ms. Brown for five minutes, please.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Lois Brown Conservative Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Gentlemen, thank you for being here.
General, I can't honestly say that I had a great deal of exposure to the armed forces before I was married, but my father-in-law was in the armed forces for 34 years. He was Canada's youngest RSM in the Second World War. He was responsible for transport, land, air, and sea, and ended up moving supplies in and out of the Italian campaign for three years before he was seconded to Blenheim castle. I kind of had to be exposed to all of this after I got married and learned a little bit about the armed forces.
One thing that Mr. Dorn said is something that you were talking a little bit about before when you were speaking to Mr. Goldring about the situation in theatre. Mr. Dorn was talking about when they were doing air-to-air refuelling. I'm not sure this is an exact quote, but he said that this should be part of your planning.
Can you foresee all of these scenarios when you're in theatre? I listened to my father-in-law tell stories about the situation when the Americans came in when they were getting ready for Monte Cassino. The Canadians had one objective, and then things changed.
Can you foresee all of these scenarios when you're in theatre? Can you speak from your own experience of how things change on the ground?
4:20 p.m.
President, Canadian Space Agency, As an Individual
May I just say that throughout my whole career, I've realized that the plan and all the planning gets you to the start point and then all bets are off.
You know, if you're really lucky, it follows the plan, but we're finding that you're never lucky. Aircraft are running dry of fuel somewhere over the Mediterranean or the Adriatic, and the closest tanker has the only fuel in the area. It's making sure your folks can actually get home safely that you have to give that aircraft fuel. We're running airfields, as we ran Kandahar airfield for quite some time. Aircraft come in, get fuel, and move out.
I guess I would say that this whole convention is a very good and proper thing, but the reality for those men and women who have to fulfill their duties is one of chaos when they are in a combat theatre. Whether it be in Iraq, whether it be in Afghanistan, or whether it be in Kosovo or peacekeeping missions, you cannot predict what will happen.
We can do everything possible to make sure we abide by the intent and the spirit of this convention and of the law. Can you guarantee it? I believe as the minister said, there's a small percentage probability that there won't be a problem. That's the reality.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Lois Brown Conservative Newmarket—Aurora, ON
When you said earlier, and I think this is a quote, that you “could have participated” but “would not have known it at that time”, if one of our soldiers were caught in a situation like that, without this coverage in our legislation, what would happen to them?
4:20 p.m.
President, Canadian Space Agency, As an Individual
I think that's a question for a lawyer, and normally in my old job I had a platoon of them all around me.
4:20 p.m.
Some hon. members
Oh, oh!
4:20 p.m.
President, Canadian Space Agency, As an Individual
The Canadian Forces must abide by the law of the land, and the code of service discipline applies, along with criminal law. Therefore, that individual or those individuals could be subject to prosecution.
4:20 p.m.
Professor, Royal Military College of Canada, Department of Defence Studies, As an Individual
Yes, I have a very quick one.
Certain things you can plan for. If you want to make sure that you're not assisting with cluster munitions, have it that American planes don't carry cluster munitions.
These weapons are becoming anachronistic; they're something of the past. Let's really bury them, instead of trying to hearken to the very remote possibility that we might be stuck in a situation whereby we might possibly have to assist with them.
The best thing we can do to make sure that cluster munitions are never used is to make it an absolute prohibition.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Thank you.
General, thank you for taking the time to be here, and Doctor, we appreciate your input as well.
Thank you very much.
The meeting is adjourned.
