Evidence of meeting #43 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was islam.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:35 p.m.
Founder, Muslim Canadian Congress
No, I didn't say that. Don't put words in my mouth.
12:35 p.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
—and get rid of all the bad people somehow. I don't know what you.... Do you have a magic wand or what?
12:35 p.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
I just need to know what you would prescribe to this committee as to what we could do.
12:35 p.m.
Founder, Muslim Canadian Congress
Yes, I would prescribe that you do not meet with people who want to take Canada to the 12th century. I'm suggesting to you that—
12:35 p.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
So, we'll put them aside. Who should we meet with, besides yourself?
12:35 p.m.
Founder, Muslim Canadian Congress
To the people you call Islamophobes every day, to the people you insult as Muslims, like him and me, that you declare to be right-wing lunatics, Islamophobes, and neo-conservatives—
12:35 p.m.
Founder, Muslim Canadian Congress
You asked a provocative question. I need to answer it, sir.
12:35 p.m.
Founder, Muslim Canadian Congress
Forget the record. You accused us. The New Democrats accuse anyone who opposes imams, mullahs, and Islamists as right-wing, neo-conservative Islamophobes. There is a reason why you would employ Islamists in your office. There's a reason why people in your office—
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
I've got to interrupt. We're over time. We may get back to you with another question.
We're going to Mr. Hawn.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
This question is going to Mr. Mansur. I'm going to get a couple of points in because I have a feeling I will only get one kick at this.
We've talked about diversity, yes, and we've talked about how complex this is. But does it really come down to a difference or a clash between humanity and barbarism?
I'll mention a couple more specific things. We've talked about the mosques and so on. Where that is happening, how do we act in terms of outing them, in terms of charitable status, without the inevitable howls of racism coming forward?
The third thing is that the Taliban in Afghanistan would tell you that “you may have the watches, but we have the time”. Will radical Islam eventually use democracy to kill democracy?
12:40 p.m.
Associate Professor, Department of Political Science, University of Western Ontario, As an Individual
There is no democracy within the Arab-Muslim world. The instances of democracy—
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Will they use what they can get away with under our democratic system? Will they use that to eventually kill democracy in Canada?
12:40 p.m.
Associate Professor, Department of Political Science, University of Western Ontario, As an Individual
Well then you're coming back to this side of the equation precisely. That's what our worry is. That's what's happening in Europe. The numbers are increasing. They are pushing their ideology. We ourselves are wavering upon who we are and what we represent. We are allowing them to push us. We are reaching a tipping point. That's exactly my fear, and maybe my colleague's fear. So yes, it can pretty much ruin democracy.
Let me be frank, sir. The accommodation that is taking place is one-way accommodation and then the pendulum might swing the other way. The first people who are going to be hurt are the very Muslims who have been pushing this thing. That's the historical fact from our previous century. We are worried about that, so we need to stop it happening now. We need to assert our values now, and we should say, “Enough is enough. You people have a choice to make. Either you start assimilating into the culture where you chose to come, or you go back to the culture that you cherish.”
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
I couldn't agree more.
We've talked about the evolution of societies and humanity and so on. In Christianity, people did a lot of bad things in the name of Christianity centuries ago—the crusades and so on. Christianity grew up; Christianity matured. This may sound like a radical question, but is it time for Islam to mature and become human?
12:40 p.m.
Associate Professor, Department of Political Science, University of Western Ontario, As an Individual
I tell it to my students in the following way. Christianity has a history of over 2,000 years, as we are in the 21st century. Jews have a history of 5,000 years. And Muslims have a history of 1,400 years. What that represents is that Christians have become adults. The Jews are past their middle age and sober and have gone through empires and defeats and seen it all. The Muslims are getting into the full-blooded testosterone of the teenager. That's what we have to understand in a civilizational sense.
Yes, Muslims will have to grow up. We have to pinpoint who we need to support. The very struggle that is going on, without getting into specific detail, which is sweeping across the Arab-Muslim world, is the struggle, the analog of the struggle that went on with Christians growing up.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Thank you.
To go back to what I mentioned about the mosques and the imams, I take what's been said. Without making a generalization about all mosques and all imams, where there is inappropriate activity going on in mosques or by specific imams, how do we...? I totally agree with taking away charitable status and support and so on. But how do we do that without, as I said, the inevitable howls of outrage about racism? How do we do that?
12:40 p.m.
Associate Professor, Department of Political Science, University of Western Ontario, As an Individual
We do that by, first of all, stopping giving those imams Jubilee medals.
I mean, I come from London, a city where we have two mosques. Given its population ratio, London has become infamous. We had youngsters travelling all the way to eastern Algeria. You all know the details. We have these imams who are playing a double game. They stand up in the pulpit...and I am a witness to that.
Imams have been stopped from travelling across the United States because their names, post-9/11, were unacceptable. Then we have our political leaders in the community hanging around with these imams and pinning them with Diamond Jubilees. Where do you then expect the common Muslim to turn around and look? It's not only the medal; we have our police force inviting these imams to don police uniforms. Who will our youngsters, our people, go to speak to when they can see the difficulties?