Evidence of meeting #103 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was continent.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Thomas Kwasi Tieku  Professor, Politics and International Relations, King’s University College, Western University, As an Individual
Thierry Vircoulon  Research Fellow of the French Institute for International Affairs, As an Individual
Cameron Hudson  Senior Fellow, Center for Strategic and International Studies
Issiaka Mandé  Professor, Université du Québec à Montréal, As an Individual
Landry Signé  Senior Fellow, The Brookings Institution, As an Individual

6:35 p.m.

Professor, Université du Québec à Montréal, As an Individual

Issiaka Mandé

Yes, it has created frustration.

Personally, I took an interest in this issue at the university, and I was very involved with the education commission. The frustrations also come from the image of Canada.

In my opinion, there is an opportunity to seize, to the extent that African students are disaffected with France, which is the traditional host country for these students. The francophone students were ready to come to Quebec.

The narrative that we often hear also needs to change. These international students are not taking anything away from anyone. Foreign students pay $2,500 per course at UQAM, whereas Quebec students pays $400, which is normal because they pay their taxes here.

That said, the difference also makes it possible to give scholarships to Quebec students. That is—

6:35 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Thank you.

I am sorry to interrupt. We agree on that, and we too were very shocked by the situation.

At the same time, there has also been a decrease in Canada's investments in the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie.

Ultimately, by investing less in the francophonie, are we not sending the message that we are gradually withdrawing from it and that we do not really want more francophone students? How is it all perceived?

6:35 p.m.

Professor, Université du Québec à Montréal, As an Individual

Issiaka Mandé

It is not well perceived.

In addition, there is a governance problem within the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie. Quebec and Canada have published reports on this subject, following the successive departure of secretaries general—I believe that is what they are called. Otherwise, Canada was indeed a leader in the francophonie. I would say there is a role for Canada to have.

6:35 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

It is a good way to be present in Africa and to have some influence.

6:35 p.m.

Professor, Université du Québec à Montréal, As an Individual

Issiaka Mandé

Yes, for sure. There is a problem.

6:35 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Thank you very much.

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi

Thank you.

We now go to Ms. McPherson.

You have the final five minutes.

April 17th, 2024 / 6:35 p.m.

NDP

Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you all very much today for being accommodating for me to run down and be part of the voting.

I also wanted to thank our witnesses for being here today. It's been very interesting.

Mr. Signé, I'm going to start with you. I want to give my greetings to my colleague John McArthur. I know you have an opportunity to work with him. I appreciate your wearing the SDG pin today as well. It's lovely to see.

One of the things you have written about, Mr. Signé, is the idea of fragility: how we identify fragile states and how we respond to fragile states. One thing that was very interesting to me is that you have observed that some of the fragile states are among the lowest recipients of aid. Why is that? Should it be that way? How do we fix it? Canada has an ODA act. Our dollars are meant to go to helping those most in need.

6:35 p.m.

Senior Fellow, The Brookings Institution, As an Individual

Prof. Landry Signé

Thank you so much for the opportunity to engage. I will say hello to John. His office is not far from mine.

That's an extremely important question, because the most fragile countries are also the ones where we have the highest concentration of poverty, especially extreme poverty, and where extreme poverty is also likely to grow in the coming decades.

Not providing resources to those countries is quite alarming. Part of the reason is lack of awareness. There is less political momentum and fewer consequences of inaction, because the broader public typically cares less about those. I like to use the Kingdon approach to public policy around the agenda where the problem, the policy and the politics are aligned. The problem, the solution and the awareness of the public align. That's one point.

In terms of solutions, in the book chapter you are referring to, I propose a city-based approach versus most of the approaches that consider the country from a central dimension. Many of the problems are based either in the city or in specific regions, and this allows more effective targeting. I also propose a business-based approach to solving fragility, because by focusing only on public players, who are also often part of the challenges, we leave behind citizens, especially entrepreneurs, younger people and women, who represent about 80% of cross-border trade, among others, and who are also the most affected in those areas. Those are the two key dimensions.

The third one is to focus on implementation. A lot of policies are developed and typically copied from one country to another or from one program to another without sufficiently taking into consideration the complexity of the context, including in the same country or in the same region. What will work in Mali may not work in Burkina Faso. Let's say in Cameroon, what would work in the northern part of Cameroon may not work in the southern part, in Bamenda. What works in Douala might not work in Bamenda. It's important to contextualize, not just at the continental level or the country level but also within the country level.

6:40 p.m.

NDP

Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

I think one of the things to keep in mind as well is that failing to meet the needs of fragile states makes them much more likely to descend into conflict in many circumstances, which of course then spirals and spreads to other parts of the region.

From the Government of Canada we had heard, and we had been excited, that there was going to be a strategy or a policy for Africa. Then we were told there was going to be a framework. The Global Affairs Canada staff, earlier in this study, told us it is now an approach.

Does that worry you? Does that degrading of what we're looking at from the Government of Canada worry you?

6:40 p.m.

Senior Fellow, The Brookings Institution, As an Individual

Prof. Landry Signé

I think it is extremely important to have a clear policy for the Africa strategy, with a specific timeline, specific goals and indicators of success.

6:40 p.m.

NDP

Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Thank you very much.

I think that's my time.

6:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi

On that note, I will thank Professor Mandé and Dr. Signé for their valuable time and expertise. We're very grateful you could join us. In particular, Dr. Signé, it's great to have your Canadian voice emanating from south of the border. Thank you very much.

We will be sending you the report as soon as it is ready.

I want to inform all the members that the deadline for the upcoming study on the current situation in Iran is April 22, 2024. Should all of you agree, we want to extend that to April 29. Do we have unanimous consent?

6:40 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

6:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi

The second thing I wanted to inform you about is that Nutrition International has requested a meeting for His Excellency Dr. Jakaya Mrisho Kikwete, former president of Tanzania, and Dr. Ibrahim Assane Mayaki, who is the former prime minister of Niger. The two of them will be here in Ottawa from April 29 to May 2. If anyone is interested in being part of that meeting, please do send me an email.

Mr. Chong.

6:40 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

On another point, I'm wondering if you could task the analysts with preparing a work plan for the Iran study.

6:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi

Absolutely.

Is that okay?

6:40 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

6:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi

Thank you very much.

The meeting stands adjourned.