Evidence of meeting #104 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was peacekeeping.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:20 p.m.
President, Partenariat International
Mr. Bergeron, you asked a question earlier about the future of French in Africa. I won't have time to answer it in 20 seconds. However, I do want to make a comment.
5:20 p.m.
Bloc
Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Montarville, QC
We'll have only a minute and a half in the next round. You can start, and we'll continue later.
5:20 p.m.
President, Partenariat International
Yet you're elected for five years, right?
5:20 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Thank you very much.
Like you, Mr. Roy, I have so many things to say that I don't know where to begin. This is a very broad panel.
Thank you very much to you all for your testimony.
Professor Grant, I feel that we've left you out, so I'm going to ask you a quick question.
I was in Tanzania just this February and met with members of a rural community, a Masai community. A Canadian mining company was trying to negotiate and work within the community. You will know that sometimes we don't have a stellar reputation around the world, and in fact, we don't have a good mechanism to hold Canadian companies accountable for human rights abuses and environmental abuses that Canadian companies do abroad.
What is the risk for Canada to have mining companies go into communities and conceivably produce ill will? I ask because they are poisoning water and interfering with the communities themselves. Often the victims of many of the crimes that happen by these mining companies are women and girls, and we don't have a mechanism in place that holds those companies to account.
How do we balance that? Of course we want to trade in Africa. We want to have Canadian mining companies that are good actors there. However, we have a lot of bad actors, and we have no mechanisms to hold them to account.
5:20 p.m.
Associate Professor of Political Studies, Queen’s University, As an Individual
Canadian mining firms are not saints. Previous testimony has pointed out that there's a need for balance on that front. However, if we are thinking about mining companies more generally, it's all in relative terms. When it comes to issues, if there's a human rights complaint or some other issue, Canadian mining firms will take it seriously.
5:20 p.m.
Associate Professor of Political Studies, Queen’s University, As an Individual
They will take it seriously, but other mining companies won't necessarily do so. People on the ground know that. Again, be mindful that they're not saints.
On the topic of mechanisms, there have been bills before Parliament over the last several years that didn't quite pass but focused on exactly that. There have been initiatives in different ways, and there have been different attempts. As a political scientist, you watch these make their way through but not quite get past the threshold.
We have the ombudsperson's office as well. Again, it does a lot of good, but it is subject to criticism. Has that been a fruitful alternative? It doesn't get a lot of focus, but that has had resources in recent years.
I think even within Parliament there is an appetite for some form of legislative oversight of Canadian mining firms more generally, because it's seen as something desirable. I think Canadians want that. We're almost there. It might just take another bill to be put forward to see it pass the threshold.
5:20 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
I will be very clear that I have tabled a bill that the government is more than welcome to implement at any time. We would be happy to help them pass it.
Ms. Tower, you made comments on structural adjustment programs and repeating the same mistakes we've made in the past. This was my career before I was in politics; I worked in international development. We still see a debt burden being borne by countries in the global south because of some of the misguided policies we put in place.
Is that what we're seeing again? Could you expand on that? I don't have a lot of time, but in 30 seconds could you expand on why this echoes exactly what we've already done wrong before?
5:20 p.m.
Founder and Executive Director, Climate Refugees
Yes.
Climate finance is just a fancy way of keeping in place an already not-fit-for-purpose international financial system that has always been disproportionately supportive of the global north, which has extractive states that have developed on the backs of states that have been victimized by colonial legacies. All of those things are part of the climate crisis today. Looking at climate change as just an environmental factor was already a massive failure, because we lost about 30 years. I think we often focus on the fact that we had a lot of deniers or naysayers who didn't grab the science. We also didn't grab people who understood intersectionality or people who understood this as a human issue, a justice issue and a human rights issue.
If we're going to talk about solutions, we have to talk about solutions that are fit for purpose. How do you actually deal with the climate crisis? How do you deal with the fact that you can't continue to provide loans to people who...? As I said, Africa as a whole gets less than 4% for 54 states. Is it a matter of justice to now ask Africa to go into further debt?
I'll also say, because of some of the things—
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
I'm afraid I'll have to cut you off, Ms. Tower. You're 45 seconds over.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
I was trying to indicate it to you. I'm sorry about that. Hopefully you will get to expand on that in the next questions.
We will go to the next round of three minutes.
Mr. Aboultaif, you will go first.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Roy, the new Africa is looking for sovereignty and autonomy. It's growing by population in all directions. It's not the same Africa we know.
Do we still have a business case for Canada to play a role, or would you advise that we should probably be more focused on certain areas where we still have a chance to do business?
5:25 p.m.
President, Partenariat International
I believe that Canada really can't be in every sector. Canada isn't the European Union, the United States or China. It doesn't have the same resources. You must know which sector you want to invest in.
I hope that the report on Africa's future expected from one of your colleagues, who is here today, will identify Canada's areas for action. For each sector, what are Canada's real objectives? Is the goal to support education, or to have another two million children in school in five years? This isn't the same thing at all. Supporting education means taking part in symposiums and theoretical discussions. It's a bit like the environment. You can keep meeting and debating the issue, just as you can keep talking about the responsibility of mining companies, for example. However, at some point, you must decide what you want. You must say, for example, that you want to send more children to school and that you want to see technical and vocational training.
You must determine which sector, which area and which coalition you want to be involved in. You're in all types of coalitions right now. You give small amounts. However, in the Africa of the future with a population of 2.4 billion, people will need results.
They need real schools. Every city in Africa will double in population over the next 30 years. There will be a major need for security, housing, education and health care. Where can Canada put its signature?
For example, the Koreans decided that they would work on the 31 stock exchanges on the African continent. They have just created a common platform for all these stock exchanges with the African Development Bank. It used to be almost impossible for an investor from South Africa to invest in Egypt. Everything is now done on the same platform. This signature will last forever. Norway has worked to ensure that Africa's 46 currencies can be exchanged in Africa, rather than in Paris or London. This means that you can exchange currencies between two neighbouring countries, rather than paying commissions to the Europeans.
These are two examples of signatures and things that last. Canada must determine where it wants to make its mark on the continent.
5:30 p.m.
Liberal
5:30 p.m.
Liberal
Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga Centre, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.
Professor Grant, I want to direct my question to you. You, like some previous witnesses, emphasized the importance of making sure that economic diplomacy is an integral part of our approach to Africa. You, as Mr. Roy did, talked about how Canadian businesses and Canadian expertise can offer significant value to the needs that Africa has right now.
You mentioned briefly the Office of the Canadian Ombudsperson for Responsible Enterprise. My question to you is twofold. First, can it be used as an important instrument to help Canadian businesses acquire even more business in Africa? Second, what else can we do? What is your recommendation to the government to further equip this office to become the tool that it can be?
5:30 p.m.
Associate Professor of Political Studies, Queen’s University, As an Individual
The office has evolved over the years. Often we invigorate it with high expectations. There's always the challenge of resources. Is the office fully resourced? That is debatable. They have keen, sharp individuals who work in the office, but again, resources are finite.
On that front, I think with an investment of resources, the output would be quite significant. You can truly invigorate the office by expanding it and giving it more resources. It's already made good inroads over the time that it's been in practice. It flies under the radar, but it does a lot of good already. It can be improved. It's something that should not be cast aside.
Even within Global Affairs Canada, Natural Resources Canada and a number of government agencies, you have sharp, clever individuals who can improve on the recommendations that I've been talking about and those of other witnesses as well. It is a matter of political will matching funding. We've heard from other witnesses about the challenges they face. They have to be empowered. They have to have the resources to make those networks and connections.
Going back to the office of trade commissioners, again, there's a great need. They are already doing quite well with limited resources, but so much more could be done with more resources or political will.
It's not beyond the scope if we think of budgets. They're political documents. Those forms of financial support can be allocated to these enterprises with, again, extremely positive benefits.
If you think of the critical mineral sector, going back to my colleague's comments a moment ago, that is an area where you can see Canada have global leadership. It's done in related areas, and this is another one where it could be done.
5:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Thank you, Professor Grant.
We now go to Mr. Bergeron.
You have a minute and a half.
5:30 p.m.
Bloc
5:30 p.m.
President, Partenariat International
For three years now, people have been floating around the rather astonishing idea that, by the middle of this century, there may be 500, 600 or even 700 million French speakers as a result of Africa. I don't agree. The growth of the world's French‑speaking population won't take place in America or Europe, of course. The European Union currently operates in English 98% of the time. French‑language instruction in Europe has fallen by 10% in the past two years.
Africa will drive significant growth in the number of French speakers, but only if the continent provides schools that teach in French. However, for French schools to exist, they must be created and funded. Canada, France, Belgium and Mauritius—in other words, francophone countries with real resources—must look at how they are and aren't supporting education in French‑speaking Africa.
Let's not forget the growth of African languages. Africans have languages that can be spoken by up to 100 million people. These languages are found on the Internet and in translation engines. The African Development Bank now releases its reports in the African languages and then translates them into French and English, for example. My point is that African languages are gaining ground.
The number of French speakers could indeed grow significantly. Will there be another 100 million, or 150 million? It's hard to say. However, to achieve this growth, children must have the opportunity to attend schools where the French language is taught. That's the bottom line. However, I find that the current efforts are completely inadequate.
If I may, I would like to come back to a very important question about investment—