Foreign Affairs Committee on Jan. 31st, 2022

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I want to say I'm very supportive of the study on Taiwan and echo what my colleagues have said on how important it is we look at this and how it is tied with what is happening in Ukraine, but I did just want a little bit of clarity.

I know that we have introduced now a number of different topics in terms of other things we could study. We have looked at vaccine equity, at Ethiopia and Haiti, and of course bringing the ministers in.

Could you tell me how you plan on moving us forward on that? Are we going to be voting on Mr. Chong's amendment, and then we can bring in other amendments or should we subamend Mr. Chong's amendment so that we actually get there? I'm really interested in us getting there and determining how we can do that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Ms. McPherson, thank you very much.

In terms of expediency, of course it's in the hands of the committee. One path of action would certainly be that there seems to be, so far, no opposition to what Mr. Chong has put forward. If that holds, then we should be able to agree on this quickly. Members could then feel free—and we have about 15 minutes of regular time remaining—to introduce one or more additional amendments to the main motion, which is the subcommittee report, or to arrive at some less formal consensus to introduce additional subjects at the next meetings of the committee. There seems to be interest in doing more. Again, I want to make sure we get a reality check from the office of the clerk and analysts in terms of what capacity we have in terms of briefings on urgent matters that are fluid, but also bigger studies in addition to what has already been agreed upon.

My recommendation to the committee—and again it's in your hands—would be to quickly approve Mr. Chong's amendment in light of the support that seems to be there, and then potentially consider either introducing additional amendments or additional studies, which the committee is also very much free to do.

Mr. Oliphant.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I was going to say the same as a suggestion.

My fear on this is that the loudest first voice gets in, and then we're going to do things. I still think we're getting enough on the agenda. We probably should add one or two more things, and then give that back to the subcommittee and say that we've done the work that we had hoped the subcommittee could have gotten done and didn't get done. That's fine. We came with one idea and then we can build a bigger agenda. I would just suggest we move on the China and Taiwan issue, and then be open to a few more ideas that could then get into the mix and give some credibility, including the ministers' mandate letters. We're going to have estimates and supplementary estimates and all those things before long as well.

I do still want to speak to the final amendment too, if we ever get to there, the very first part of the committee report.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Mr. Oliphant, thank you very much.

I just received a very helpful note from the clerk, which is that in a previous Parliament the committee had given the chair the authority to schedule briefings as urgent issues arose. The committee may wish to consider giving the chair and the clerk and analysts the authority to schedule briefings on Ethiopia and Haiti, because there seems to be an interest in those. That's something you could contemplate, in addition to finalizing the subcommittee report as amended.

Is there any further discussion at this point on Mr. Chong's amendment?

I see Mr. Oliphant's hand, but I think that's unrelated to it.

Seeing none, Mr. Chong, we have approved your amendment unanimously. Congratulations.

(Amendment agreed to)

That takes us back to the main motion. I understand that Mr. Oliphant wants to come in on that point, so I will give him the floor, and then Ms. McPherson.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

There may still be further amendments. I accept that, but I just want to go over the terms of reference of that to-be-scheduled meeting with the ambassador, who is our permanent representative at the United Nations. It's very clear in the original motion that the meeting would be with respect to his public remarks on Quebec's secularism law—also known as Bill 21—to appear no later than...blah blah...for a period of three hours.

I have a question about that being a three-hour agenda item. I know it is of strong concern to some people. However, if we want the ambassador to speak on something else, we should be very clear about it, recognizing, however, that I'm not sure it's appropriate to have the ambassador who represents Canada speak before the ministers have a chance to speak on their mandate letters. Anything that the ambassador to the United Nations would be saying would be derivative from the policies of the government.

You go to the place where the policies are being articulated, which is from the ministers and the mandate letters. If we wanted him to speak on the secularism law that is a provincial law within the mandate of Quebec, I frankly do not see that a three-hour meeting on that topic would be of good use for federal politicians. I don't think that that would be an appropriate use of our time.

I would propose an amendment to change that from three hours to two hours to have some better use of my own time, at least. There is an amendment on the floor.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you very much, Mr. Oliphant.

Just for clarification, the subcommittee report as it was framed prior to amendment does not include language that makes reference to the secularism law in Quebec.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I'm sorry, I don't have that report in front of me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

You have the predecessor version, perhaps.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I have the original motion, number 13, in front of us. Could I ask what the actual motion is then, that was passed to the subcommittee?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

I'll read it again for clarity.

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Committee request the appearance of Bob Rae, Ambassador of Canada to the United Nations, to appear between January 17 and January 28 to entertain questions from the Committee in regard to his mandate and experience, for a period of 3 hours.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I would still support my amendment of two hours then, even given that. I just think three hours is way too long for an effective meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you, Mr. Oliphant—

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, I believe Mr. Oliphant also implied that he was supportive of striking the reference to the dates in that section of the report as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you for that, Mr. Chong.

I'm already seeing nods. If we change the time to two hours and remove the dates, is there any opposition?

I think I have a speakers list. Before doing anything, I want to make sure Madame McPherson, Mr. Morantz, Madame Bendayan and then Monsieur Bergeron have a chance to speak.

Ms. McPherson, please go ahead.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I'm worried about the lack of time.

Of course, I'm happy with that. I just wanted to bring forward an amendment to ensure that vaccine equity is included in our list of things that we will be studying. With time being as it is, can I bring it as a subamendment to this? Is that possible at this point?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Do you mean a subamendment to Mr. Oliphant's amendment?

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

In theory, yes. I don't know how members are for time. We may be able to extend briefly, if it's really the will of the committee to put that forward now.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I would be happy to bring forward a different amendment if there was a willingness to extend.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Could I take a quick straw poll in terms of members being available for an additional five minutes? Are there any severe constraints? Yes, no or maybe?

So far, I see thumbs up. Let's see if we can do that. If it's the will of the committee to go to 1:15, we may be able to put that in as an additional amendment. In any event, thank you, Ms. McPherson.

I have Mr. Morantz, Madame Bendayan, Monsieur Bergeron and then Dr. Fry.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

I'm taking my hand down. I was going to make the point that we had broadened the motion on the ambassador as well.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you, Mr. Morantz. That's helpful.

Madame Bendayan.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Mr. Chair, I just want to mention that we talked earlier in the meeting about inviting the ambassador to appear at a time that would be convenient for him. So I wanted to pull out the specific dates.

I also want to come back to Mr. Oliphant's proposal. My understanding is that he is suggesting that the minister herself should appear before the ambassador. I do not know whether that has been noted or whether it is in the proposed amendment that we are dealing with at the moment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you, Ms. Bendayan.

For clarification, as far as I could tell, it's not part of the amendment, but there was some nodding of heads when that was mentioned. We didn't land on a specific answer.

Mr. Bergeron, you have the floor.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Mr. Chair, first of all, I want to mention that I am in favour of keeping the three hours originally planned. In addition, I would like to point out that, at the subcommittee meeting, the intent was that the ministers and the ambassador would be heard from on completely separate occasions. For this reason, I do not see why anyone would want to link these two things today.

Finally, I would suggest again that we ask our analysts and our clerk to see, given the time we have left, how we could schedule at least one briefing regarding the situation in Haiti and Ethiopia.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.