Government Operations Committee on April 17th, 2007

[Karen Ellis]

I believe that in a lot of the processes run by the Public Service Commission, they will actually ask that question on the poster that goes out; people can identify that way as well. So there are ways of doing it, but, as Madame Jauvin says, it may vary depending on the competitions by different departments.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

So we could do it for casual employees or term employees if we wanted to.

[Nicole Jauvin]

I think you could certainly.... If people chose to identify, there would be no reason not to. I think we'd have to think carefully about it. If you're asking the question, are you creating a situation in which people feel that they are being put in...?

But it's a good point. I think we should go back and look at it.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

I would just close by saying that it's something that stands out to me as one potential barrier, and I would be interested in seeing whether there is a way to address it. Maybe it would help make the numbers less skewed than they are today.

[Nicole Jauvin]

Definitely.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you.

Monsieur Simard.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you very much, Madame Chair.

I'd like to apologize first for missing your presentation. I had to leave for a few minutes.

From the answers I've heard up to this point, I guess I can assume you have a certain level of comfort, like Madame Barrados, that things are under control, things are being looked after, and you don't expect a huge problem down the road. Is that what the general feeling is?

[Nicole Jauvin]

The general feeling is that if we did nothing, we'd probably have some serious problems, but we are certainly managing this in a way to take advantage of what's happening.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

I'm sure you must have looked at some of the testimony from some of the other witnesses who came forward and who maybe didn't have the same opinion. There was a lot of concern expressed, actually, by some of the unions. What do you do in a case like that? I'm sure you must have reviewed their testimony. Do you speak to them? Do you basically match the two and try to figure out why there would be such a discrepancy in the testimony we're receiving here?

[Nicole Jauvin]

I'm not sure which one exactly, but I would say to you that we work very closely with the unions. I see it as a personal responsibility in my job, but I'm not the only one. I think the other deputies in the HR portfolio see it just as much as a responsibility.

We work very closely together. I have regular meetings with John Gordon and with Madame Demers. Some other unions represent a much smaller group of people, so obviously they get a little less attention from me, but by and large—

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

There's good collaboration?

[Nicole Jauvin]

Relations are good, yes.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

I'd like to move on, just quickly. Both you and Madame Barrados have indicated that there are lots of people applying when jobs are posted. My understanding is that in the regions--in Winnipeg, for instance--there are lots of people applying, but there are not necessarily lots of qualified people applying in the area of trades, for instance.

Do you weed it out and break it down to three or four candidates? I would assume you do that. I'm hearing that in Winnipeg, for instance, they are even increasing wages because they can't get plumbers or others in certain trades. They're increasing the salaries.

[Nicole Jauvin]

The first point I would make is that we probably don't have a lot of jobs that would be in the trade area. I know from personal knowledge that it's really hard to find a lot of good tradespeople.

We wouldn't have a huge need for those kinds of occupations. For those we do need, though, the applications would be received by the Public Service Commission. They have a process, filters on the computers, to narrow down and make sure that the people they actually put together in the pool to be considered for a job meet all of the job qualifications.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

I was really surprised to hear that you are getting a lot of good, qualified people in HR, in your own organization. The feeling out there right now is that almost every private sector industry, even the small ones, are building their own HR offices or are getting the expertise from outside. It would seem to me that over the next five to ten years, that will increase. A lot of my colleagues who are in business are saying that is the future. You know, it's not accounting any more; you need to have good people working for you.

Do you foresee that as being a problem down the road, even for your own organization?

[Nicole Jauvin]

I think there's a lot of interest in HR issues and HR management. To give you an example, I had never done HR in my life, except as a deputy minister of a department. Coming to this, frankly, has been really interesting and exciting.

You're absolutely right, it's something that's essential right now, in that people are taking it maybe a little bit more seriously than they had before. So I don't find that I'm having this difficulty.

We are trying to build up a bit of a policy capacity, though, because we do offer services to departments, but we also need to do the higher-level analysis so that we can answer some of the questions that you put to us and that we put to ourselves.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

One last question: Does your agency have employees across the country, or are they all here in Ottawa?

[Nicole Jauvin]

They're all here in Ottawa, but they're—

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

You're kind of apologizing.

[Nicole Jauvin]

No, no, I just.... I guess I consider a lot of the regional councils as not my employees but as my conduit into the regions. Regional councils are the networks of people who come together in the regions—

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

I'm sure you've considered having employees in the regions as well. I think that might be beneficial in the long term.

[Nicole Jauvin]

It might be, you're absolutely right; it's a question of money.

One thing we're doing is we have assigned one management trainee, so one person per regional council, to represent the agency and so on. But I think what you're getting at—

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Have somebody on the ground who knows what's going on in the region.

[Nicole Jauvin]

Yes; that is something that I personally would like very much.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you very much.