Evidence of meeting #47 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was banks.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:15 p.m.
Minister of Public Works and Government Services
Were there studies in the past? I don't know.
5:15 p.m.
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
There are various studies that we have carried out that are public, and we've even shared them with the unions, in terms of the cost efficiency of the real property program, benchmarking ourselves against—and this is very important to understand—other corporate real estate entities, both in the private sector and more importantly at government levels, that show we basically have twice as many employees as other like organizations who manage the same type of property.
We also have another study, which has been carried out by CB Richard Ellis and Tiree Inc., that shows that the efficiency span within Public Works is approximately 20% higher than that of private sector entities.
Even when we outsourced our own property management to a third-party service provider, in the initial phase in 1996 we saved $20 million. And then further, when we retendered, we saved an additional $18.7 million per year, on an annual basis. So just through the efficiency of our own operations, we were able to pick up $40 million just by outsourcing the property management to the private sector. Also, when you benchmark us against other like organizations, we have twice as many employees on a per metre basis.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
I'm going to go for one short, last question, because we will be voting shortly.
Mr. Simard.
5:15 p.m.
An hon. member
Give him two.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Raymond Simard Liberal Saint Boniface, MB
I guess I'm going to try to fit it into one question, Mr. Minister.
I'm still very concerned about the decision that was taken to actually sell these buildings. It was based on what?
You're telling us that two banks were hired to bring back criteria the first time as to whether or not they should sell. If you have banks that can make 2%, 3%, 4%, or 5% of $1.5 billion, did you really think they'd come back and say “No, you shouldn't sell”?
Secondly, the $4.5 billion is only a scary number, unless you compare it with the private sector and the private sector is comparable.
What are we comparing with? Mr. McGrath, you just brought this information lately, and it was very valuable. Are our vacancy rates much higher than those of the private sector? Have we done a full comparison and said yes, Public Works is totally incompetent compared with the private sector, and this is why we're selling? I haven't heard that.
5:15 p.m.
Minister of Public Works and Government Services
Well, I bring you back to your colleague, Scott Brison, who was going to sell the entire portfolio. I'm sure you had a discussion with him before he considered that.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Raymond Simard Liberal Saint Boniface, MB
And if you're planning on selling it now, we're asking you. You're the minister.
5:15 p.m.
Minister of Public Works and Government Services
No, but I think this is a—
5:15 p.m.
Minister of Public Works and Government Services
I'm trying to answer your question.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Raymond Simard Liberal Saint Boniface, MB
No, I'm the questioner.
Mr. Brison was studying the portfolio. You are now planning on selling them.
5:15 p.m.
Minister of Public Works and Government Services
No, no. He was planning to sell the entire portfolio, the entire nine.
This is very different. It's very focused, exactly like our government. We know exactly what we're doing. It's about saving money for taxpayers.
5:15 p.m.
Minister of Public Works and Government Services
Basically, it's about managing the portfolio just as a normal person would, looking at this. We have neglected it over the years—I'm trying to make this a non-partisan issue—over decades, Monsieur Simard.
5:20 p.m.
Minister of Public Works and Government Services
I'm not sure you would, because—
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Raymond Simard Liberal Saint Boniface, MB
Would you be willing to table the document to this committee? We could look at it in camera. It's important for us. We're all members of Parliament, right? We're all sworn to secrecy.
It seems to me that I may want to support your initiative, but I don't have information to be able to support it. So would you table the documents here?
5:20 p.m.
Minister of Public Works and Government Services
As many documents as possible will be made available, if and when we decide to go ahead. That's my undertaking.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
Thank you very much.
We will, I'm sure, be hearing from you again. Thank you.
The meeting is adjourned.
