Evidence of meeting #48 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was buildings.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC
I'm prepared to entertain the motion, but Mr. McKellar is here giving testimony.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
There is no problem. I am ruling that it's in order, and I've asked Mr. Turner—
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
I have a point of order.
I don't believe we've exhausted time for questioning.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
I asked and was told nobody else wanted to speak. It was Mr. Turner's turn. Mr. Turner can present his motion and we can keep speaking. How's that?
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
As a point of clarification, are we in his speaking time for questioning or...what are we doing now?
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
That wasn't my question. My question was, what forum do we now find ourselves in?
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
I gave him his turn because when I asked for more speakers from the Conservatives, there were no more.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
What forum do we now find ourselves in, though? Are we in committee business or are we questioning a witness?
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
It's the same thing. We are discussing the sale of assets and we happen to have one person here, but he can present his motion now.
Mr. Turner, go ahead with your motion.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Garth Turner Conservative Halton, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I'd like to move, Madam Chair, that the committee recall the Minister of Public Works and Government Services and insist that the following information be disclosed to committee members as soon as possible. I'm suggesting that it be at our meeting on May 10. The information would include, but would not be restricted to, the expected sale price of the buildings; expectations of the proposed leases; expected base and additional rents; commissions, fees, levies, and payments associated with the sale and the lease; anticipated buyback provisions; and all attendant costs about the sale and lease, including all legal fees and payments, and the recipients; and that information to be provided to us at our in camera meeting.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC
Can we have a copy of the motion in both official languages?
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC
Could we have it in writing, before the vote is held?
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC
The vote is scheduled to take place in 48 hours.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
Madam Nash wished to speak. Did you want to ask some questions while we get the French going on this?
4:45 p.m.
NDP
Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON
Mr. McKellar, my first question is, you said that Australia had sold off all of its public buildings and that countries around the world had done different things. Is there a balance that you would recommend Canada make between its capacity of office space or public buildings it retains and those that it leases?
4:45 p.m.
Professor of Real Property, Academic Director, Real Property Program, Schulich School of Business, York University
I think it's clear that it's not in the public interest to sell everything from heritage sites to special use, to laboratories, etc. I think where the dividing line occurs is in what I call commodity accommodation, and that is accommodation that you can get on the street in the market at today's price and you can sign a lease. It is hard to defend why government needs to own that kind of space.
4:45 p.m.
NDP
4:45 p.m.
Professor of Real Property, Academic Director, Real Property Program, Schulich School of Business, York University
Regular office space, because one of the things that we find in industry today is that industry really isn't sure where it's going to be in three, four, or five years.
For example, if you take the city of Toronto, we're growing every 10 years at the size of Calgary. So 10 years from now there's going to be another million people who require services. Are they going to be well-served by a building that is located in Queen's Park, or in fact should we be looking at renting a mall space, or should we be looking at providing services electronically?
I think that all industry today is being a little more suspect about where its space is, etc. But I would certainly say that when it comes down to what I call commodity space, it's more difficult to defend the notion of ownership.
Now, given that you own them, the debate today is, at what price and what agreements do you dispose of those? But there's fundamentally nothing wrong with disposing of them.
4:50 p.m.
NDP
Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON
I was thinking that there's a building on the block, 4900 Yonge Street, Yonge and Sheppard, which is a long-time government building. I don't know the age of the building.