Government Operations Committee on June 19th, 2008

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

So you made no assumption at all at that time whether the information was coming from the Obama or the Clinton campaign?

[Ian Brodie]

I don't recall.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Okay.

So regarding the information that you relayed to CTV during the lock-up, when you mentioned you believed there was possible mention of NAFTA, was that divulging information that you believed was confidential at that time?

[Ian Brodie]

Well, my disadvantage here is that although I recall the conversation I had with the CTV reporter during the lock-up in regard to two items related to the budget that was under discussion at that point, I don't recall a discussion with him about issues related to NAFTA. I can say that whatever conversation I would have had would have been in the context of a good Canada-U.S. relationship and in an effort to generally downplay or put into context disputes that might arise in the Canada-U.S. relationship.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

It's interesting, because the whole focus here has been about the leaked memo, but there is, I think, a much more interesting point to be made. I think something that is really disturbing is the fact that you had a private meeting in the embassy where there was discussion about NAFTA, and you went into a lock-up and there's a possibility that you may have talked about NAFTA. There's also a possibility you might have in fact talked about the Clinton campaign--we're not sure.

Were you trying to slam the Clinton campaign or the Obama campaign? What was going through your head at the time you had this discussion that arose from a very private, confidential discussion you had in the embassy?

[Ian Brodie]

I'm not sure I would accept the premise of your question, sir. I would refer you to page 9 of the PCO report, as I did in my opening remarks, and as Mr. Moore did earlier.

The conclusion of section 5.1 of the report says there was no evidence that I disclosed any classified information. That was in regard to discussions I had with a CTV reporter at the budget lock-up.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Did you maybe get the facts wrong? Did you actually think you were—

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you very much, Mr. Silva.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

—talking about the Clinton campaign when you really meant to talk about the Obama campaign?

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Mr. Silva, thank you very much.

We're going to end this meeting with Madame Faille.

We're going to give you a very short question, Madame Faille. It's noon, and we're already way past our time.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to go back to my previous question. You said that you were in Washington on February 25 to discuss the Manley report, one month after it was released. You also stated that you received the diplomatic report from the Associated Press on February 27.

When did you find out that such a meeting had been held in Chicago?

[Ian Brodie]

The timeline in the annex to the PCO report is important.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

When did you know that there was a report and that a meeting had taken place on February 8?

The official report was published on February 13. So 14 days elapsed before you were informed about it. Now, you are trying to make us believe that the briefing binder prepared for you by the Privy Council Office for your visit to Washington made no mention of this meeting nor of the notes pertaining to this report when in fact eight people from the Privy Council Office had a copy of this report in their hands as did 212 employees from the Department of Foreign Affairs.

[Ian Brodie]

Let me complete the answer that I was going to give you a moment ago.

The timeline in the annex to the PCO report is quite clear. It reports that on February 28, at about 2:35 in the afternoon, I was informed that the office had a copy of a report about a meeting in Chicago involving the Obama campaign. So I think that's clear.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

I am not asking you when you got the report. When did you find out that there had been a meeting and that that had been discussed? Are you now maintaining that your briefing notes contained no information on NAFTA?

[Ian Brodie]

Let me be clear. I found out about the meeting between the diplomats in Chicago and someone from the Obama campaign on February 28. The briefing materials that we had to prepare for the trip on February 25 related to the purpose of the trip on February 25, which is in relation to follow-up to the Manley panel.

I know that some of these things get widely distributed at the Department of Foreign Affairs, and there are often hundreds of people at Foreign Affairs engaged on sometimes important files. For the most part, I'm completely unaware of the work they do until it becomes important that I become aware of what they're up to. And since the meeting on the 25th was not to discuss NAFTA or the ongoing presidential campaign, but the Manley panel report, all the briefing materials I had to prepare for the meeting on the 25th related to that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you very much, Mr. Brodie.

Have a good summer, everybody.

The meeting is adjourned.