Government Operations Committee on May 26th, 2009

[The Chair, Liberal, Derek Lee]

Colleagues, today we have main estimates.

With us now are Minister Vic Toews and two officials, Mr. Smith and Ms. Gillis. Both of them have appeared before us in the recent past and we are grateful for their assistance to the committee.

Minister Toews is here on main estimates, and at this particular point in time we only have one hour, unless Minister Toews can stay beyond the 1 o'clock time, when we might be able to add a few additional minutes, depending on what the meeting context is at that time.

I did want to just record something for the record. We have a new member on the committee. Ms. Judy Foote is now an official member of the committee, representing the official opposition.

We'll go right to you, Minister Toews, if you're ready to present on your estimates.

Welcome. The floor is yours.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, President of the Treasury Board]

Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to be here.

Honourable members, I'm pleased to appear before you on the main estimates of the Treasury Board Secretariat and the Canada School of Public Service. Today I have with me Alister Smith, assistant secretary of the Treasury Board Secretariat; Kelly Gillis, the assistant secretary in our corporate services sector; Jamie Tibbetts, the chief financial officer at the Canada School of Public Service; and Dan Danagher. If more technical information is required, both of the other individuals can appear and answer questions.

I appeared before this committee on March 10, when the main estimates for 2009-10 were tabled. At that time I spoke to you about the priorities for Treasury Board. Today I'd like to take this opportunity to bring you up to date on some of the key initiatives that Treasury Board is leading for the government. After I've concluded, I'd be pleased to answer questions.

One of the Treasury Board Secretariat's key priorities is ensuring that the government operates effectively and in the best interests of Canadian taxpayers. We are being tested in this area by the monumental efforts required to implement Canada's economic action plan. We've had to act quickly to implement the stimulus measures contained in the plan in order to ensure that they have a real impact for Canadian businesses and families.

At the same time, we've acted to ensure that taxpayers' money is spent responsibly and effectively. We are striking the right balance between due diligence and the rapid delivery of stimulus. In the year ahead, we will continue working with other departments to continue the efficient and effective implementation of the economic action plan.

I'm pleased to report that the crucial initial phase of the budget implementation has been a success. Within two months of tabling our economic action plan, we have received nearly all of the necessary authorities for funds to flow, including $10 billion through the Budget Implementation Act, which was introduced and passed in record time.

The Budget Implementation Act included $7.6 billion in spending authorities and $2.4 billion in tax reductions for 2009-10. The supplementary estimates (A), tabled May 14, included information related to $1.8 billion in allocations from vote 35, which is a mechanism to provide bridge funding to economic action plan initiatives that were ready to move forward in advance of the regular supply process.

In addition to vote 35 allocations, the approximate total of Budget 2009 items in the supplementary estimates (A) is $1.6 billion. The remaining value of the economic action plan items to be approved for 2009-10 is approximately $2.1 billion. We have all of the authorities in place for the entire stimulus package of $22 billion, other than the $2.1 billion I just mentioned.

These items will be funded through future allocations from vote 35, that is, up to June 30, or through supplementary estimates (B) or (C). As committed, our government is reporting on the use of vote 35. In addition to the information already reported in supplementary estimates (A), we will be reporting on all allocations from vote 35 in the June quarterly report to Parliament. Final allocations from this vote will be reported in the third quarterly report to Parliament and in the supplementary estimates (B).

The secretariat is also committed to ensuring that program spending is focused on results, provides value for taxpayers' money, and is aligned with the government's priorities and responsibilities. In other words, we are working to make government more effective. Our primary tools for achieving this are the new expenditure management system and the strategic review of each department's and agency's spending on a four-year cycle. The new expenditure management system is helping to ensure that the government gets value for money. We are ensuring that program spending is focused on results, that it provides value for taxpayers' money, and that it is aligned with the government's priorities and responsibilities.

The expenditure management system our government put in place in 2007 will continue to serve us well. An important part of this system is the strategic review process. Through this exercise, every department and agency is required to assess all of their direct program spending and performance on a four-year cycle to ensure they are achieving their intended results, are efficiently managed, and respond to the priorities of Canadians. Strategic reviews are rigorous and systematic assessments of all direct program spending and the operating costs of all their major statutory programs.

This year marks the third cycle of strategic reviews. As we've already seen, departments and agencies take these reviews seriously and bring forward their proposals to ensure that every dollar we spend is achieving real results for Canadians. It's really not much different from what Canadian families do when they regularly adjust their spending to meet their changing needs.

In addition, this year we're taking steps to ensure that our public service continues to be dynamic and remains well equipped to address challenges in a way that is both cost-effective and responsive to the needs of Canadians.

That is why, effective March 2, 2009, a new Office of the Chief Human Resources Officer was created. This office combines central components of human resources management and is housed within the secretariat. With this restructuring we are simplifying the way the government manages its human resources. We are reducing overlap and duplication, and giving managers the tools to more effectively manage resources. Very importantly, we are ensuring that deputy ministers have the tools they need to fulfill their responsibilities and manage the people in their departments and agencies. We are also cutting red tape in the management of human resources by reviewing and modernizing our human resources-related policies.

I am proud of the progress we have made in working to improve the operations and culture of the federal public service. We're getting the funding to Canadian families and businesses in difficult economic times, and we're working to ensure that the government is responsive and responsible, in good times and in bad.

Mr. Chair, together with all of my officials in the secretariat, we are ensuring that Canadians are being well served. I am confident that together we will continue to deliver for Canadians in the year ahead.

Thank you very much. That concludes my formal comments.

[The Chair, Liberal, Derek Lee]

Thank you very much.

Before I turn to the official opposition, in your remarks you referred to the June quarterly report on the vote 35 stimulus spending. Do you have a date when you intend to offer that to the House?

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

We don't have a fixed date on that yet.

[The Chair, Liberal, Derek Lee]

Do you have a target?

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Derek Lee]

Hopefully it's before June 23.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Yes, I believe it will be before then.

[The Chair, Liberal, Derek Lee]

After that it won't make any difference, will it?

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

It will still make a difference to the Canadian people.

[The Chair, Liberal, Derek Lee]

I'm sincerely asking in a business-like way whether you have a date yet.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

No. My target is before the House rises, if that's what your concern is.

[The Chair, Liberal, Derek Lee]

Even if the House rises early...?

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

I don't know how early the House is going to rise.

[The Chair, Liberal, Derek Lee]

The tradition is that we get really religious and disciplined at getting our work done around here in the last day or two.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

I'm told that we expect to stay here until June 23. I'm certainly aiming before that date.

[The Chair, Liberal, Derek Lee]

Okay. I'll alert you to the other possibility. We'll want to monitor that closely.

Thank you very much.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Derek Lee]

We're going to have five-minute rounds. We discussed it consensually and I think that's the best way to deal with the hour before us.

Ms. Hall Findlay.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Toews, Ms. Gillis, and Mr. Smith. It's great to have you here with us. We appreciate you taking the time.

We remain, as you know, concerned about the speed within which money is actually getting out the door. We've had the Minister of Transport and Infrastructure in and learned about some real problems in getting infrastructure money out the door.

My questions today will focus on vote 35, of course, because it is a Treasury Board responsibility.

I will begin with just a very quick statement from page 2 of the budget plan. It says that Canada is in a recession today and that measures to support the economy must begin within the next 120 days to be most effective. I'll point out that the 120th day is actually tomorrow. We do have some concerns about where the money has actually been spent.

I note in your preamble, Mr. Minister, that you talk about having achieved the necessary authorities. Well, yes, we actually did approve this budget--flawed as we felt it was--but very much on the basis that we recognized the need to get stimulus money out the door as quickly as possible.

My first question is on what has been allocated under vote 35 as of April 30. We don't have information for beyond April 30. Of that $1.8 billion, under vote 35, can you distinguish for me, and give me a number, the distinction between an allocation...? In looking through the allocations, it's very clear that some of that money is not actually spendable right away. So my question is, given the need for stimulus, of the $1.8 billion that was allocated, can you tell me how much of that money has actually been spent? And that means cheques actually written and money out the door, going back to the 120 days. It's actually spent and now in the economy doing what it's supposed to be doing.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

I can indicate to you that all of the necessary legal allocations have been made for over $2 billion now. Certainly, we reported on the $1.8 billion, and it's over $2 billion. Then it falls to the various departments to ensure that money goes out of the door. There are, in fact, various announcements that we have made that commit the Government of Canada.

I know that Minister Baird indicated that the federal government is taking the unprecedented step of flowing money, before receipts are even received for that money, where a contribution agreement has been signed. That would be 25% of the federal contribution that can be forwarded to the proponent of the program upon application by that proponent.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Given that we only have five minutes, I will point out that when we had Minister Baird, he acknowledged that only a tiny fraction of any of the money that was allocated has actually been spent. He referred only to two specific projects in British Columbia. The rest have not actually been started.

But I'm going back to my question because I didn't get an answer, Mr. Minister--

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

I'm not going to argue with Mr. Baird, but I know that he took issue with your characterization of 6%. I spoke to him about that today and he doesn't agree with that characterization.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

I was referring to the fact that he, in committee, was only able to refer to two relatively small projects in British Columbia.

I will ask again if you can confirm how much money has actually been spent of the $1.8 billion that was allocated. We hear this wonderful language about allocations, announcements, reannouncements. Allocations and announcements do not pay wages; they do not stimulate the economy until the money is actually out there. So could you give me some idea of how much money, through this vote 35, is actually now in the economy being spent?

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

I can tell you that if vote 35 had not been in place, none of the money and none of the legal authorizations would have been in place until December. That's the difference. Vote 35 has made a difference in pushing up the legal authorities by about nine months.

But in respect of the specific allocations to specific projects, you'll have to go to the departments that are responsible for that. Our responsibility is to ensure that there is appropriate legal authority to get those moneys to the departments to spend. At that point the various departments become responsible for them.

The only thing we have not yet allocated is less than $1 billion in respect of...no, excuse me, it's about $2 billion still out of the total $22 billion stimulus package that Treasury Board has provided the necessary approvals for.