Evidence of meeting #24 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was assets.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC
Minister, if an SME feels that it has been wronged, does it have the possibility of appealing before the court?
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Christian Paradis Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
SMEs can always turn to the Canadian International Trade Tribunal. This is an expedited process. It's not like a common-law court, where you don't know when you'll be heard. There is also the ombudsman, a new institution created under the Federal Accountability Act. This ombudsman reports to the minister about small contracts. People may contact the ombudsman to provide information on where things went wrong, according to them. Once a year, the ombudsman submits a report to the minister.
Too often, we hear people say that the machine is too big, that they were on the point of closing their books and doing something else. Those are the type of comments we don't want to hear any more. We implemented this tool, which is accessible and affordable for taxpayers, with the aim of innovating, and especially of renewing and improving the process.
11:40 a.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Thank you, Chair.
I only have eight minutes, but I'm going to use the first few seconds to condemn in the strongest possible terms the fact, Minister, that you are only with us here for one hour today. You come to us asking for the approval to spend billions and billions and billions of dollars, and you have only one hour to share with us for us to probe into this book of main estimates that's as thick as a Manhattan phone book. You're the second minister in a row that has stiffed us. The President of Treasury Board just did the same thing. He was booked for a paltry two hours. When he got here he announced, “By the way, I can only be with you for an hour”. And you've done the same thing to us today, Minister. I'm not impressed. I understand you have another commitment, but you have to understand the estimates are part of the parliamentary procedure where you come to us asking for approval for spending, and you owe us more than an hour of your time.
Having said that, I don't mean to be rude, I'm simply venting my disappointment. I come from a jurisdiction where the estimates in the province of Manitoba go on for days, where a minister has to answer questions on a line-by-line basis why he proposes to spend in this way. We're being shortchanged; the people of Canada are being shortchanged by this process.
My questions are specific and they're quite narrow in scope, because time doesn't permit for anything else. One of the finance minister's ways of trying to get out of deficit, about which we're concerned, may be the fire sale of crown assets. Four times Public Works has been before our committee, and so has the Treasury Board, and so has the Minister for Infrastructure. We have asked a number of officials: “What is the list of crown assets that you intend to sell? Are you intending to sell things such as VIA Rail, the CBC, AECL?”. We learned today you are selling AECL. The answer to those questions was “No, no, no. No such list exists. No, no, no, everything is on the table, but nothing is on the table.” Well, AECL must have been on the table during that period of time for you to announce today that you are offloading one of the crown jewels of crown corporations and national assets.
What else is on the table? What else have you been asked to divest by Public Works?
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Christian Paradis Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Esteemed colleague, I understand your comment concerning my presence, but I am telling you very frankly: I have a previous engagement with my provincial counterparts.
However, I will address the question at hand. I will discuss the budget, as I did earlier with Ms. Hall Findlay.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Christian Paradis Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
I will take note of that, but as regards your question on the assets, I will reiterate that in the budget, the Department of Finance indicated that the departments affected could be named. However that is not the case for the Department of Public Works and Government Services. So I will repeat for you that no Public Works and Government Services Canada assets will be involved in that process.
Moreover, I am not in a position to speak for other departments. I already have more than enough work in my own. Asset management is immeasurable. It includes all procurement, the Translation Bureau, all information technology and the Receiver General of Canada. I can speak to those areas, but otherwise, I cannot.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
I have only eight minutes, sir. If that's the case, that you can't answer on the sale of assets, then I'll move on to my next question.
Asbestos is the greatest industrial killer the world has ever known. More people in Canada now die from asbestos than from all other occupational diseases combined. You are known as one of the number one cheerleaders of asbestos in this country. Canada spends millions of dollars promoting and subsidizing the production, sale, export, and use of chrysotile asbestos in Canada and in third world countries because nobody else will buy it from us any more. Only third world countries, where we dump it, are using asbestos, because the rest of the world has banned it.
You've come to us seeking approval of the estimates. There's no guarantee we will approve them, by the way. We may reject them, we may reduce them, but we don't have to accept them.
I notice you have budget lines in here for renovating public buildings to improve handicapped accessibility and any number of virtuous issues associated with the maintenance and care of the buildings that are in your trust. Where is your long-term plan or budget to remove this class A carcinogen that your government has promoted and contaminated every public building in the country with?
In my home province of Manitoba, they've just identified 436 schools contaminated with this deadly carcinogen, chrysotile asbestos.
The Parliament Buildings are unfit for human habitation by any realistic standard. It's a good thing the Canada Labour Code doesn't apply to Parliament Hill, because my staff would exercise their right to refuse unsafe work. They wouldn't come into this domicile, because it's littered with asbestos.
So where in your budget, as the minister responsible for public works and these buildings, is the asbestos removal budget to make these buildings safe again?
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Christian Paradis Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Mr. Martin, I am very well aware of your opinion of chrysotile asbestos. I respect your point of view, but I do not share it.
Having said that, you can call me names and grandstand as much as you want calling me a cheerleader or anything else for that matter, the answer is that it is a question of managing risks through controlled use. That is the policy, don't mix things up. We know that in the past, fibres, which may not have even been chrysotile, were not used properly. It may have been sprayed asbestos, or a host of other things. Today, chrysotile fibres are encased, which is completely different.
You are referring to improper use of asbestos.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
We can't have the debate of whether or not asbestos is dangerous. That horse has left the barn.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Christian Paradis Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Look, you asked me a question and I answered it.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Asbestos is the biggest killer and industrial occupational disease in the world.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Christian Paradis Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Mr. Chairman, may I please answer the question?
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
We're asking about how you could get it out of the buildings, not whether or not it's dangerous.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Christian Paradis Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Look, if you want to make propaganda, go ahead.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Christian Paradis Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
I will go back to the point. You asked me a question. I would like to answer it.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
You, sir, are the promoter of propaganda. You and your Chrysotile Institute are the ones with tainted research. You're the tobacco industry's evil twin, you and your Chrysotile Institute.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Christian Paradis Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
I would like to answer the question, Mr. Chairman. I understand that this gentleman has many points to make, points that I have heard on several occasions.
