Evidence of meeting #13 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was company.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:05 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, International Strategic Investments
I can't comment on that because I'm not an expert, and I can't tell you about the Lobbying Act or the Federal Accountability Act.
You're the MPs. I'm here to give you what happened, to show you what the paper is all about, and try to--
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
You didn't know much about the Lobbying Act, but how are you on the Criminal Code?
The Criminal Code prohibits influence peddling by anyone who has or pretends to have “influence with the government or with a minister”. The application of this provision is limited to those who have or pretend to have a significant enough connection to government so they can affect the government's choice or decision.
Did Mr. Jaffer and/or his cabinet minister wife lead you to believe, or any client of yours to believe, that he had significant enough connection to government that he may affect a government's choice—
4:05 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, International Strategic Investments
No, not at all.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Well, what did you need Mr. Jaffer for, if not for his connections to government?
4:05 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, International Strategic Investments
What does the company exist for, then? Does every company that deals with government influence-peddle?
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Why would you need to share whatever venture you were in with Mr. Jaffer?
4:05 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, International Strategic Investments
Well, I've said that I wanted an intermediary to be able to deal with the maze of government. You can do that legally, can you not?
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
But actually in the contract you cite, it says--and I think you read part of it--“The Consultant warrants and represents”, which means attests—
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
--“that it is in ongoing dialogue with, and has valuable connections to and with, the government of Canada and various departments, ministries...”. Does that not say to you that you went to him because he has a special connection to or influence over policy-makers?
4:10 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, International Strategic Investments
Well, I mean, to me that says that he has ongoing business with the government and that he may have built up relationships, but that's his business. You can't hold me accountable for what somebody else has said they—
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
No, sir, we aren't. We're actually grateful for the information you're giving. It's actually Mr. Jaffer who may or may not, but we believe is--
4:10 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, International Strategic Investments
Sure, and Mr. Glémaud is an attorney, correct? He served with the justice department. This contract went to him. I'm going to provide you with all the correspondence, which will show you that Mr. Glémaud came back with the revisions. So he reviewed this document, made changes to it, and then delivered what he wanted to have signed to our counsel.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
And then denied it ever existed, essentially, to us. Again, this is not your problem. This is our problem. We feel that we were lied to at the last committee, and it puts us in a foul mood, frankly.
4:10 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Would you agree that the main service or the main commodity that Mr. Jaffer has to offer not just you, but other clients, is his access to government money and his influence over the policy-makers or the public office holders who distribute that money?
4:10 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, International Strategic Investments
I think anybody who knows Mr. Jaffer knows that he doesn't really have any influence over policy-makers.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Then why would you choose his company to get into a venture with as opposed to someone else who has more experience?
4:10 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, International Strategic Investments
He is Ismaili. He is of the same religion as me. He was introduced to me by somebody I trusted.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
But there are 6,000 registered lobbyists in Ottawa. You could have chosen any one of them.
4:10 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, International Strategic Investments
Sure, but this is the one who came to me through somebody I trust. Doesn't a lot of this happen every day where you end up doing business with somebody you meet through someone you trust? Aren't a lot of things happening based on referral, versus there being 6,000 out there, so go pick the biggest or the smallest or whatever?
This came through my cousin. It's a relative who introduced me to him and said he has this business and this is what he's doing. We weren't looking to do anything offside at all.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Would you say this is a fairly boilerplate kind of contract that you'll get into regularly with somebody you're starting to work with?