Evidence of meeting #6 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was billion.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:10 p.m.
Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
Yes, at the end of the fiscal year 2013.
5:10 p.m.
Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
And again, this is an accrual accounting basis...Public Accounts of Canada.
5:10 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Thank you.
I have a concluding comment, perhaps, on this what I think is an excessive use of outside management consultants, an amount of $459 million in the last fiscal year. It's down from the previous year, which was $509 million, so kudos for saving $50 million, but that's a staggering amount of money to go to outside third parties to tell government what they should be doing. There's a disingenuous aspect to that.
I'd also like your comment on this. The Office of Infrastructure Canada left $1.56 billion on the table; 29.4% of its available funds are lapsed. Now, is it my understanding from another example I brought to you that this money can simply be re-announced in the next year? So the next Building Canada fund, when they announce it, will include, I presume, the $1.56 billion that they left on the table the year previous?
5:15 p.m.
Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
Mr. Chair, I can't speak to how things will be announced, but if the money is reprofiled and is to be included in a future year's estimates, you will see it mentioned in here for sure, because we need Parliament's approval.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
“Reprofiled”, that's the term.
Well, that's what begs the question. We're going to outside contractors to tell us how to run government like a business, presumably. Deloitte Touche is becoming to the government what Arthur Andersen was to Enron, yet we have this inconsistency here.
If you want to use the running government like a private business analogy, who would invest in a company if you couldn't trust the financial statements? If somebody pulled a stunt like that in a private sector, publicly traded company, they'd be exposed for misleading people. There's going to be a big announcement, Building Canada; let's build more stuff, and all the municipalities will sing and cheer. But 50% of it is going to be money that was held back in a miserly fashion from the previous spending year. Am I reading this right? Am I finally starting to be able to figure out these estimates?
5:15 p.m.
Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
I'd say two things.
One is the estimates are planned spending, and because you cannot exceed...it is an up-to amount—
5:15 p.m.
Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
If the question is whether departments are overly optimistic in terms of what they are hoping to spend, history would tell you that National Defence and Infrastructure Canada are some of larger lapsers year after year because they're in a more complicated business.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
They're also a juicy place to find savings.
If there's a directive from on high to every cabinet minister around the table saying, “Never mind the 5%, if you want to stay in cabinet, I want you to find 10%, 15% efficiency...”.
5:15 p.m.
Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
I think where there are reductions, Mr. Chair, you will not see the amounts coming back as being requested for spending again. They don't come back. When there are reductions, they're taken from the estimates and you will not see them again.
You did mention financial reporting, and the Public Accounts of Canada are a key document in terms of accountability. You will notice that the Auditor General does sign off on the financial statements, and that's the actual results achieved in terms of spending and revenues, assets and liabilities.
For the year ending 2012-13, the government did receive a clean opinion on its financial statements. Those documents have been audited by the Auditor General.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP Pierre-Luc Dusseault
Thank you, Mr. Martin. That's all the time we have.
Again, thank you all for being here. The bell is ringing, so it's time to vote.
Before we leave, I would remind members that voting on budget allocations will take place at the end of our supplementary estimates study, which is slated for Tuesday, December 3. That's just for your information.
And on that, we'll meet again on Thursday, same time.