Government Operations Committee on Nov. 28th, 2013

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

There is no problem if answers can be provided on the subject, to the extent that is possible. Otherwise, answers may be forwarded later to the clerk of the committee.

[Michelle d'Auray]

All right.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

With regard to the federal ombudsman for contract procurement, would you be able to describe to the committee basically the relationship that Public Works and Government Services has with the ombudsman and the value that it provides to the contracting process?

[Michelle d'Auray]

The ombudsman, Mr. Chair, is a separate entity. The office reports directly to the Minister of Public Works and Government Services Canada.

It has the mandate to assess and to address complaints that it receives for procurements under $25,000, or below the range of the trade limits, which I believe is $76,000. It also receives complaints for procurements that are beyond that.

The ombudsman refers those complaints to us—his office cannot address those—if they receive complaints about a procurement process that relates to Public Works. They also receive complaints about procurement processes that relate to other organizations that have procurement authorities.

I would encourage you, if I can put it this way, to look at his annual report which was just recently released. You will get in there all the information about the number of cases and the number of complaints and the assessments. But he doesn't work with us. He has a very specific mandate to inform potential suppliers to the Government of Canada of what the recourse mechanisms are through his office. He refers complaints that he receives to us if he cannot address them, and then when he receives complaints for which he has the mandate, he undertakes a review of the complaints.

When we receive complaints that he refers to us, for which he doesn't have the mandate to review, we take each one of them on its face value and we undertake procurement reviews, and we get back directly to the complainant.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Thank you.

I now hand the floor over to Mr. O'Connor for five minutes.

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Thanks for coming today. I know we're running out of your time.

I've noticed that Revenue Canada brings in more than $250 billion a year and yet you're called the Receiver General. Why isn't Revenue Canada called the Receiver General since they bring in a lot more revenue than anybody else?

[Michelle d'Auray]

That's an interesting question, Mr. Chair.

We are the organization through which the payments and receipts are processed, so we are the receiver general, in that sense, for all of the incoming and outgoing, so that is the name.

Revenue Canada generates or collects the revenue, but we receive the revenue.

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

So we could call them receiver anyway.

It's just a thing I've always wondered about because they seem to get all the money.

There is some guidance or rule out there that says that in the national capital region, buildings or people have to be distributed in certain proportions. It might be 77:23, or something like that.

I'd like to know what the state of that distribution is at this time.

[Michelle d'Auray]

It is a policy and a commitment made by Public Works and Government Services Canada to ensure that in its office accommodation distribution within the national capital area, 25% would be in Gatineau and 75% on the Ottawa side.

I will turn perhaps to my colleague Monsieur Mongeau to give us the current status.

I think it's almost at 25:75 right now.

[Pierre-Marc Mongeau]

We aim for a ratio of 75:25. It varies slightly from 74.9% to 75.2%, but we are following the right model. Going back to the question initially asked, the fact that we were able to construct three buildings in Gatineau also helps us shore up that 75:25 ratio. We abide by that rule and we regularly monitor the situation.

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

My next question has to do with life-cycle costs for projects. What is involved in a life-cycle cost?

[Michelle d'Auray]

Mr. Chair, the concept between life-cycle costing, or through life cycle, actually goes from the beginning of the acquisition of an asset—for example, the planning, the procurement, the actual cost of the asset, the maintenance, the operations—all the way through to its disposition. That is what is called a through life cycle. So it covers the cost of an asset from the planning to the purchase to the final disposition of the asset. Depending on the type of the asset, it could cover 25 years, 30 years, or 10 years. It has to cover all of the aspects of it.

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

How do you calculate that? Let's take a large defence project, which apparently we now have to calculate 40 years for.

How do you calculate for 40 years?

[Michelle d'Auray]

Mr. Chair, not every asset has a 40-year lifetime, but we do look at what the comparables would be. If we have a similar asset or equipment, we will look at the costs of personnel, training, maintenance over time, and we will project those over a timeframe. These essentially, as you have put them, are estimates of through life cycle, and those estimates get refined annually once the asset is acquired and addressed.

We have found that some assets can go much beyond their original expected life duration, but then the maintenance costs go up significantly. They are adjusted through the life of the asset, but when you are about to make a purchase, it is good practice, which is done in all enterprises when you have significant asset purchases, to look at what your expected costs over the duration of the use of that asset would be. You need that in order to be able to plan, for budgeting and planning purposes.

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Do I have time left?

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

You have 10 seconds.

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

I think it's very difficult to try to imagine inflation 10 years, 20 years out. You have to be off your mark by quite a distance eventually.

[Michelle d'Auray]

We always use ranges, Mr. Chair, so there is always an element of projection.

Whenever we use a number that goes out more than five years, there are all of the usual caveats around the ranges, the expectations, what could happen in a case of some major activity or break. Again, from an operational perspective, it is to give you a range of what the costs of having and maintaining that asset would be over the expected life of that asset.

It really is a planning tool. It's not specifically a budgeting tool, but it is a planning tool when you're trying to do financial projections over a long time cycle.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

To conclude, I will hand the floor over to the inestimable Mr. Blanchette.

[Denis Blanchette, NDP, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Please do not get carried way, Mr. Chair.

The costs of the linguistic management and services program have increased slowly in recent years, until 2012-2013. In the past two years, however, they have fallen by nearly 20%. What happened?

[Michelle d'Auray]

There are two factors to consider. First, the Translation Bureau used temporary programs. Those temporary programs had a lifespan of five years and were not renewed once they had expired.

[Denis Blanchette, NDP, Louis-Hébert, QC]

You mean a temporary program that has just been terminated?

[Michelle d'Auray]

Pardon me?

[Denis Blanchette, NDP, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Do you have an example of a temporary program that has just been terminated?

[Michelle d'Auray]

There was a five-year program to support colleges and universities in training translators and interpreters. The program was set up and we provided funding for that purpose. At the end of the five-year period, it had achieved its objectives and was not renewed. That is an example of a temporary program.

In addition, there has been a decline in use of the Translation Bureau's services. The number of documents translated and the use of interpretation services fluctuate over the years. Our interpretation services, apart from those used in the parliamentary precinct, are intended for conference activities and very specific purposes. There is a fluctuation in that area as well. People increasingly use video conferences and have less need for on-site interpretation services since they travel less to meetings.