Government Operations Committee on Oct. 8th, 2020

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Ms. Vignola.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Chair, I didn't understand everything while the motion was being read. I'm a rather visual person, and if possible, I would like to have the written version of the motion. I need visual support. I have a fairly lengthy motion myself, and each member will receive visual support. I would very much like to have one in this case as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Kusmierczyk.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate what my colleague MP Green was trying to do with this large motion. I really can't support it. We had a really good start to this committee today. It was very collaborative with a lot of good discussions. As a committee member, as an MP, I really can't vote on something that I simply have not seen and have not been able to study. I think asking for a snap vote on something as large as that is unfair. I think it goes against the spirit that we're establishing here on this committee in terms of working together collaboratively. I just don't think it would be fair to put us in a position to vote on something that we haven't seen.

I'll be honest with you, Mr. Green. You lost me after about the ninth chapter of the motion. I really would like to have an opportunity to look at it, study it and then come back confident that I know exactly what I am voting for. A journalism professor of mine at Carleton once said that if your mom tells you she loves you, go and verify. I think I want to be able to have an opportunity here. I fully appreciate what the member was trying to do in terms of advancing the work of the committee, but I just don't think it would be fair for us to vote on something that we don't have all the details on.

As my colleague Madame Vignola mentioned, I too am very visual. As I said, I lost the thread of the motion about halfway through. I just want to have the opportunity here to read it and study it. Again, I'm sure if everything is in order, we'll be able to move forward on that. I really feel that we need to have this in front of us and to be able to read it. I didn't receive—maybe I was the only one—the actual motion ahead of time from the clerk. I just think that, especially with something as large as this, we all need to be able to look at it.

Again, in the spirit of what we've established in this committee today, I really think that the proper thing to do is simply for us to go back, get that copy—both in English and in French—and be able to look at it in order to make sure everything is in order and to move confidently. With something as important as this, especially if it's going to establish the agenda for the entire committee and establish the tenor and the tone of how we work together, I really do think we need to take a pause here to be able to look at the motion that's being put forward, to consider it and to do the right thing, the responsible thing, and vote for it with full information.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Mr. Kusmierczyk.

In fairness to the clerk, while he did receive the information before, he could not dispense it until such time as the chair had been determined. That's the reason that, as you're aware, you did not receive it.

I believe, Mr. Gerretsen, you should be next, assuming your hand is still up.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

It is. Thank you.

I just want to start by saying to my Liberal colleague that I'm willing to bet my political career that his mother loves him.

I agree with what he and Madame Vignola said. I certainly am a visual person. I can honestly say that I wouldn't even know exactly what I was voting on if I didn't have this in front of me. Normally, when motions come forward during committee business—although this might be in order procedurally—there are motions that are a few sentences long and it's very clear what the intent is. There's a lot to this. I think that, in fairness—with all due respect, Mr. Green—if you're going to propose something like this in the future, even though the clerk might not be able to distribute it.... You know who's on the committee. You may want to send it to them in advance and just say, “Hey, just to give you a heads-up, I'm going to be bringing this forward.” That wasn't the case.

Mr. Chair, I would move, with respect to this motion, that we adjourn the debate on it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

That's a non-debatable motion. Therefore, we should call for a vote.

Mr. Clerk, can we call for a recorded vote, please?

[The Clerk]

Mr. Chair, that is five votes in favour and five votes against. You will need to cast your vote.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

I will vote for the motion and ask that we have further discussion on this, at the will of the committee, as we move forward.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5)

Mr. Paul-Hus, you have the floor for motions.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Mr. Chair, my understanding is that Mr. Green's motion did not pass. Is that correct, Mr. Clerk?

[The Clerk]

Yes, debate on the motion was adjourned. That motion did not pass.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Okay. Thank you.

Mr. Chair, I have four motions to propose, and they are fairly short so everyone should understand. This is the first motion:

(1) That the committee undertake a study of the Main Estimates, 2020-21 and invite the Minister of Public Services and Procurement and senior officials from Public Services and Procurement Canada to appear.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Mr. Paul-Hus, are you going to present all four and debate them separately, or one at a time?

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

I have four motions. I can present them one by one so that it will be less difficult to understand, if you give me the opportunity to present them one after the other. Otherwise, I can present all four motions at the same time. I just want to make sure I have the right to speak afterwards.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Certainly. In light of how long we've gone, let's do one at a time, and we'll vote on those as we go.

Let's go ahead with discussion on this first motion.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Can we have that read again, please, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Certainly.

Mr. Paul-Hus, could you re-read the motion, please?

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Yes, Mr. Chair. Here it is:

(1) That the committee undertake a study of the Main Estimates, 2020-21 and invite the Minister of Public Services and Procurement and senior officials from Public Services and Procurement Canada to appear.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Is there any discussion?

I see a number of hands that are up, and I don't know whether those were up in the past. I would ask people to take those down at this point in time if they would. and then we will ask for people.

Can I see hands? Now I have Mr. MacKinnon.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like something clarified. Earlier this year, we looked at the department's budgetary appropriations. Mr. Paul-Hus would like to meet with the minister and officials to discuss the main estimates. How would that be different from the review of appropriations that we are required to undertake?

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

There's nothing different, dear colleague. I simply want to confirm that in the work of the committee, there is a motion on reviewing the main estimates, as tabled by the House. I just want to make sure that the minister and officials will be appearing before the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Ms. Vignola.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I have nothing to add. I raised my hand to discuss my own motions afterwards.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you. I have you next on the list, following Mr. Paul-Hus.

Go ahead, Mr. McCauley.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

To Mr. MacKinnon's point, I don't believe we did the main estimates. I think we did what was the supplementary estimates, because we have such a very odd estimates process this year. I don't recall the minister showing up for such supplementary estimates, much less for such studies of the main estimates. Obviously we were not, because it wasn't a proper committee. We weren't voting on them either. It may be the appropriate time to do so now.