Government Operations Committee on March 20th, 2024

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Can you explain for the committee what the refocused government spending initiative is, especially as we are doing the buildup to the budget?

[Anita Anand]

Unlike previous governments that have not done a refocused government spending initiative, we are actually working to repurpose funds that aren't being effectively utilized and making sure those funds are directed towards government policy. For example, we are moving towards ensuring that we are refocusing $15.8 billion over five years and $4.8 billion every year thereafter.

This is something that has not been done in this government. In fact, it is an objective that many advanced economies undertake.

For example, in the supplementary estimates before the holidays, I tabled $500 million of savings, of which $350 million was from third party contracts or professional services—money which can be then utilized towards our government's priorities while reducing the spending on outsourcing—and $150 million from executive travel. That's an example of the type of work we are doing in refocusing government spending.

As I said, we are on track to meet our objectives. We have achieved 97% of the targets for the first year of the refocused government spending initiative. It is a way to ensure that we are using taxpayer dollars efficiently and prudently.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Excellent.

Thank you very much for that.

As you mentioned, the supplementary estimates contained many reductions and also some substantial increases.

What are some of the largest expenditures?

[Anita Anand]

I will mention that those increases go towards some government priorities with requirements in statute for the use of third party services.

For example, in national defence, there is $590 million for the Canadian multi-mission aircraft and $510 million for the strategic transport capability. These are absolute essential requirements for the Department of National Defence. We are continuing to ensure that taxpayer dollars are used effectively toward our strategic priorities and our country's protection.

In indigenous services, which is an issue that I know you have fought hard on—and I thank you for your advocacy—there is $800 million for child and family services for the Department of Indigenous Services, $800 million for health services for Jordan's principle, $260 million for emergency management on reserve and $55 million for elementary and secondary education on reserve.

I want to stress that our government's priorities—including reconciliation, and including an economy and an environment that respect the sustainability of our future—are top of mind, as is helping our country's most vulnerable, as we do in the Canada child benefit, old age security and $10-a-day child care.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Excellent. Thank you so much.

My time is quickly going away here.

Mitigating the negative impacts of climate change has become increasingly costly as natural disasters occur more frequently and with increased severity.

What is the Treasury Board doing to help Canada reach its carbon emissions reduction target?

[Anita Anand]

As I said to the question about what the Treasury Board does, we are the overseer of taxpayer dollars before a program that has been approved goes out the door.

The work we are doing on environmental sustainability through the power grid, through the EV battery plants and through the carbon rebate are important examples of the work we are doing in this area.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Excellent.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks very much.

Mrs. Vignola, go ahead, please.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Anand, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for coming today.

Indeed, my first question concerns conflicts of interest or the appearance of conflicts of interest.

Let's suppose a contractor involved in ArriveCAN or the Botler AI pilot project, for example, has a brother working at the Department of National Defence. Would that individual have to disclose to his employer that his brother is a contractor for National Defence?

[Anita Anand]

All employees must, when signing their contract, inform their deputy head of any outside employment or activity involving family members, brothers, sisters or parents, that could result in a conflict of interest. That disclosure must be made as soon as possible at the time the contract is signed.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you.

If, after the contract has been signed, the employee learns that his brother has a contract with his department, should he, even if the contract has already been signed, ensure that his employer is aware of the possible appearance of a conflict of interest?

[Anita Anand]

You are correct: all public service employees, no matter what department they work for, must disclose that information. Furthermore, disclosure must be made whenever the question arises, not solely when the contract is signed.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much. I encourage you to verify whether that's the case.

I note in supplementary estimates (C) that 129 organizations are asking for new funding. However, if I look at the approved amounts to date compared with actual 2021‑22 expenditures, I note that, out of 107 organizations, the total for 2023‑24 is higher than for 2021‑22. In some cases, it has doubled. However, 22 organizations, most of which are involved in culture, heritage and research, are getting less.

You're asking for $15 billion in cuts to all departments for the next few years. Why are budget cuts mainly affecting culture, heritage and research?

[Anita Anand]

That's not the case. Obviously, all departments need to keep their eyes on the objectives. Last summer, I sent a letter to all ministers and organizations stating that we have to refocus on our priorities. This will be done in a balanced way. It won't necessarily happen this year, but over the next five years.

It means that over five years, the amount reduced from each department will be similar.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Currently, if I look at pages 1‑6 to 1‑10 of supplementary estimates (C), and I compare the last column with the first, it's clear that heritage and culture are affected.

I'm just making a comment here. I hope that things will not continue like that. Some people think that culture, heritage and research aren't important, and yet, they're the foundation of everything.

[Anita Anand]

You're quite right.

I'm going to ask Annie Boudreau to jump in here.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

It's okay. I'm merely making a comment to ensure that this will be considered in the future. Thank you very much.

[Annie Boudreau, Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat]

I would simply make a clarification. The figures you mentioned included significant support in 2021‑22 for the response to COVID‑19. Now, Heritage Canada and other organizations are no longer providing that support. That's why there is such a significant decrease.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Nonetheless, all the others are showing increases despite the fact that the COVID‑19 pandemic is over. If it were linked to COVID‑19, all the organizations should be getting less.

Thank you very much. I will ask the rest of my questions in the next round.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

You have one more minute.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Oh, I have one more minute? That's wonderful.

You're responsible for implementing Bill C-13, which deals with official languages. I have a lot of questions about that. Whatever the case may be, the parliamentary secretary imposed on you was the only one who voted against that bill.

Are you comfortable with the government's decision? How does it affect the application of the Official Languages Act and your commitment in that regard? Do you have free rein?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Please give a very short answer.

[Anita Anand]

My responsibilities concern the public service. I will implement the act, because I have the responsibility to do so.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Desjarlais, welcome to OGGO. The floor is yours for six minutes, sir.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the President of the Treasury Board for being with us today. It's an important discussion, as I think Canadians across our country are having to deal with the double crisis of affordability. They themselves are having a tough time trying to balance their own books, whether it's for rent, food or trying to make sure they have enough money to make it through difficult times. They're finding challenges in trying to tighten their belts.

Meanwhile, they see here in Ottawa a very different story—one that says companies were able to access our public service and bid on contracts almost continuously since 2008. In this trajectory, the public service has been continuing to lose funding, lose full-time employment and lose resources from our federal government from as early as 2008. That creates a problem that the Auditor General outlined in her report.

My first question to you, Madam Minister, is this: Have you read the Auditor General's recent report on ArriveCAN?