Government Operations Committee on April 8th, 2024

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you. That is our time.

Gentlemen, just so you're aware, the committee has passed a motion that we require all responses, such as the one just mentioned, to come back within 21 days.

Mr. Bachrach, please go ahead, sir.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Brisson and Mr. Yee, for being with us today.

The committee had hoped to have the CEO of Canada Post appear as part of this study. I understand, Mr. Chair, that you've had correspondence with the CEO. I wonder if you could update the committee on when we can expect an appearance as part of this study.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks for bringing that up.

It will be after May 3, when it's tabled in the House, when their updated report is offered. I suspect we'll have them here in mid-May to late May, maybe with the estimates as well.

Thanks for bringing that up.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

That's fantastic. Thanks for the update.

This is an issue that's very pertinent to the area I represent in northwest B.C. It is an area entirely made up of rural and remote communities. Many of them are difficult to get to. Many of them rely heavily on their postal service, as I'm sure you're well aware.

In the past couple of years, I've been involved in issues around rural post offices and the loss of them. Working with communities to try to re-establish their postal service has shed a lot of light on the shortcomings of Canada Post's model for rural postal delivery.

Mr. Brisson, you mentioned in your earlier comments that sometimes there are situations, such as the death of a postmaster or a fire, that result in the loss of a post office. In those cases, it can be challenging to find a replacement.

I wonder how much of that has to do with the offer that Canada Post is putting on the table, because my understanding—from talking to these communities and to individuals who have considered becoming a postmaster—is that Canada Post offers a pittance. It requires postmasters to provide their own post office and then it pays them a ridiculous starting wage, considering that these are federal employees responsible for handling the mail. Since the beginning of mail delivery, it has been an occupation of great responsibility and importance.

Perhaps I'll start with the question of how much Canada Post offers as the starting hourly wage for a rural postmaster. What's the starting wage?

[Alexandre Brisson]

Thank you for the question.

There's no question that it is a challenge in rural areas to be able to respond to changes in personnel, as you said. Our focus is certainly to maintain service.

You're talking about wages. As you know, this year, 2024, is a year of union negotiations. We definitely table those topics and we discuss the conditions of employment in rural areas. It's certainly a topic dear to our hearts, and it's a very important topic for our CPAA union.

It's a negotiation year. We have many topics on the table with them. Discussions are actually taking place now. On wages, I would not want to comment at this point in time because our labour negotiations are happening as we speak.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Brisson, this is an easy question to ask, and I ask it knowing the answer. I just want to hear you say it.

Last year, for instance, or the year before that, what was the starting hourly wage for a Canada Post postmaster in a rural community? You know the number. It's a simple question. It's also public information and it doesn't compromise the negotiations you're currently in with the union.

Can you share with the committee what the starting hourly wage for a rural postmaster is?

[Alexandre Brisson]

Can I turn to my colleague here and have Michael jump in?

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Absolutely.

[Michael Yee]

Mr. Bachrach, thank you for the question.

I would first like to say that with regard to postmasters, we recognize the role they play in the community—

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I have one minute left. Mr. Brisson already gave a bunch of context. We're just looking for a number—just an hourly wage.

[Michael Yee]

What I can say is that it differs, depending on the community, so to get you the most accurate information, I would like to follow up with you with the actual numbers. There are regional adjustments that we make for postmasters, depending on where communities are.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

My understanding is that the collective agreement has a starting hourly salary, and that hourly salary is less than $20 an hour. I see you nodding, so it sounds like that's roughly in the ballpark.

To me, that's probably part of the reason that it's difficult to recruit new postmasters in communities that have lost their postmaster. The minimum wage in British Columbia, as of June 1, is going to be $17.40, so Canada Post is paying just barely above minimum wage for a job that involves handling the mail.

My next question is around what you pay for rent, because these postmasters also have to provide the post office, and you provide a stipend for rent. Does Canada Post base that stipend on the market rent for real estate in those rural communities?

[Michael Yee]

With regard to the compensation, there are wages and there is a stipend for real estate, as you mentioned.

What I can say is that we adhere to our long-standing and normal practices for postmasters in these remote communities to provide facilities where, unfortunately, sometimes there are limited options for space to provide postal services. We've had this process and compensation scheme in place for many years. It's a process that we adhere to, and I know it's an active point of communication right now with the Canadian Postmasters and Assistants Association.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

If I may, Mr. Chair, could I just note that the question was whether Canada Post bases the stipend on market rent in the communities where the post office is located?

Mr. Yee, unfortunately, you didn't provide an answer.

I know that the answer is that, no, you don't. The stipend is a pittance. You don't pay the postmasters adequately and you don't pay adequately for the space. That is the reason that Canada Post has trouble re-establishing post offices in rural communities.

I see you nodding because I know that you know that this is the case. I hope this is something that we can get to as a committee.

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for your forbearance.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you, Mr. Yee and Mr. Bachrach.

I'll turn the floor over to you, Mrs. Kusie.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for being here today.

Mr. Brisson, do you condone the stealing of mail?

[Alexandre Brisson]

I'm sorry. I don't know what documents you're referring to.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

It's a simple question, Mr. Brisson. Do you condone the stealing of mail? Do you think it's acceptable to steal mail?

[Alexandre Brisson]

The answer is absolutely not.

Let me just state a few things.

We take the security of mail very seriously. We have internal teams looking to ensure the security of mail. We have mail inspectors in our systems collaborating nationally, at all levels, to make sure that we do everything we can to keep the mail safe and also to make sure that we don't support any illicit activities through the services we provide. It's a very high priority for Canada Post.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

In your opinion, is a $500 fine acceptable? Is that enough of a punishment for an individual who steals mail? Do you think that's an acceptable punishment for the crime of stealing mail?

[Alexandre Brisson]

I'm an operations person. My job is to provide service. However, I do know that, depending on what happened, we have our teams aligned with local officials to enforce the security of mail.

I don't know this specific case, but I know that we're taking this very seriously across the board.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Sadly, Mr. Brisson, it was an elected official. It was someone in our very chamber.

Do you think it's acceptable that a member of Parliament would steal mail?

[Alexandre Brisson]

It's never acceptable for anyone to steal mail, and our job is to protect the integrity of our system.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you.

Mr. Brisson, how many executives at Canada Post earned bonuses this year?