Evidence of meeting #28 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was recommendations.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Chisholm  Vice-President, Product Management and Customer Experience, Canada Post Corporation
Marier  Chair, Canadian Transportation Accident Investigation and Safety Board
Clarkin  Director General, Corporate Services, Canadian Transportation Accident Investigation and Safety Board

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Good afternoon, everyone.

Welcome to meeting number 28 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates.

Today we have with us Canada Post. We were originally going to be discussing Bill C-15, but of course, as everyone's aware, the parties made a deal without involving OGGO, and they settled some of the Bill C-15 issues. However, seeing as we already had a commitment from Canada Post to show up and since we're doing the supplementary estimates (C), we're going to move over to that discussion, as well as any other questions you might have for Canada Post.

Welcome, Ms. Chisholm. I understand that you have an opening statement.

The floor is yours for five minutes. Please go ahead.

Carrie Chisholm Vice-President, Product Management and Customer Experience, Canada Post Corporation

Thank you very much.

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

Thank you for inviting Canada Post to appear today.

My name is Carrie Chisholm. I am the vice-president of product management and customer experience at Canada Post. I’m pleased to participate in today’s discussion on Bill C‑15 and the government’s additional repayable funding as it relates to Canada Post. I look forward to answering the members’ questions.

First, I'd like to share that I am very pleased with the government's new proposal to amend Bill C-15 to include language that protects free material for people who are blind or partially sighted, as well as reduced rates for eligible library materials. I would like to reaffirm that Canada Post had no plans to change these services. These are long-standing commitments that we will continue to honour, and we are very proud to do so.

Today, I'm here to focus on the provision in the bill, should it pass, that provides Canada Post with greater flexibility on the ability to update its established, regulated letter mail rate-setting process. This would only apply to regulated letter mail items and does not include parcels or our direct marketing services. It is a change that we have long advocated for and that would help us address our substantial financial challenges.

Over the last 20 years, the mail industry has completely transformed. In 2006, we delivered almost 5.5 billion letters. Today, we deliver half that volume. Meanwhile, the number of addresses we deliver to continues to grow. The result is that the revenue we earn from mail no longer covers the cost to deliver it, which has significantly compounded our financial issues.

Since 2018, Canada Post has incurred more than $5.5 billion in operating losses. Last year, we required an initial $1-billion cash injection from the government simply to stay afloat. However, the funding was insufficient, largely due to ongoing labour uncertainty throughout 2025 and its impact on our revenue. Earlier this month, the government informed Canada Post that additional repayable funding up to $1.01 billion would be made available to ensure the corporation can maintain its solvency and continue to serve Canadians with the reliable postal service they depend on.

We recognize the severity of our financial situation. Despite these challenges, the problems facing Canada Post are fixable. Having reached tentative agreements with our largest union in December, and thanks to the government's decision to lift some regulatory and policy barriers, we can start to turn a corner. Amending the letter mail pricing process can play a key role in this turnaround.

As proposed in Bill C-15, greater flexibility in the letter mail pricing process would enable us to align our mail business with the modern needs of Canadians. This would mean that the service of delivering letters could better cover its own costs and reduce the need for taxpayer support. In addition, a more streamlined process would significantly cut red tape.

For example, today it takes up to nine months to adjust pricing. It's a cumbersome process that exacts a heavy administrative toll on multiple government departments, decision-makers and agencies. These are all reasons that changing this process was amongst the list of recommendations in the Industrial Inquiry Commission report. It's also why we've included it in our transformation plan, which is currently under review by the government.

We welcome parameters when it comes to changing the pricing process, and we fully support checks and balances. We know Canadians and Canadian businesses are facing rising costs. We recognize that prices must be fair and continue to provide good value, so we are looking forward to working with the government to create a clear process that would ensure transparency, proper notifications to all stakeholders and evidence-based justification for any increases.

In closing, as you know, Canada Post has a dual mandate to deliver to all Canadian addresses while remaining financially self-sustainable. Every change we are making is about getting back to this mandate and ensuring that postal service remains accessible and affordable for everyone.

Thank you again to the committee. I would be pleased to take your questions.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Wonderful. Thank you very much.

We'll start with Mr. Patzer, please, for six minutes.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to Canada Post for joining us virtually today.

I want to start the conversation with this: One town back in the riding I represent sent me a concern that they had. They received a cheque for Canada Post utilities through UPS via a company in Utah. I'm curious; is that a standard practice that you guys do for paying utility bills to towns that lease out buildings to Canada Post?

3:35 p.m.

Vice-President, Product Management and Customer Experience, Canada Post Corporation

Carrie Chisholm

I'm afraid I don't have any details on that. I'd be happy to take that away and look into it. I'm not familiar with the situation.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK

Okay. The company is Conservice out of Utah. They are apparently a third party utility payment system. I found it really ironic that Canada Post would be sending payment through UPS, through an American service to Canada, for goods from a Crown corporation to another level of government. I just found that quite ironic.

3:35 p.m.

Vice-President, Product Management and Customer Experience, Canada Post Corporation

Carrie Chisholm

Okay. I've made a note of it. Thank you.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK

Thank you very much.

When it comes to rural post offices, we've heard that lifting the moratorium will not affect rural areas. What is Canada Post doing to make sure that rural post offices will remain open?

3:35 p.m.

Vice-President, Product Management and Customer Experience, Canada Post Corporation

Carrie Chisholm

As was announced in September, the minister has provided some direction to us in terms of how we can lessen regulatory and policy burden. One of them is the rural moratorium, as you mentioned. In our postal network, the rural moratorium was put in place in 1994. It was meant to protect rural post offices at the time, but it's remained unchanged for over three decades. Since that time, the country has shifted, with villages that have become towns, towns that have become cities and cities that have moved to full-grown areas. The needs of Canadians have changed.

Our proposed plan—we are currently still in discussion with the government—includes modernization of our post offices to better reflect where Canadians live and shop. We understand, of course, how important a role the rural, remote and indigenous communities play. Modernization will have to truly prioritize and protect access to vital services in these areas. As I mentioned, this is part of the proposed plan we've submitted to the government and are in discussion on, but we won't be able to share final details until it's fully endorsed and improved.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK

While the moratorium was in place, though, over 500 rural post offices closed. I recognize that part of the lifting of this moratorium is, as you said, for places that have changed from a village all the way up to a city. I understand the reasons you're doing that, of course. However, I'm looking more at some of the towns that are very rural and remote and that rely on the postal service for sending in water samples, say, on a weekly basis to make sure residents are drinking clean water. There's a lot of concern from folks that those kinds of post offices will end up on the chopping block.

Can you provide to this committee assurances that your plan will ensure that places like the town of Vanguard, for example, or even the village of Neville will not lose their post offices because of a strategy like this?

3:40 p.m.

Vice-President, Product Management and Customer Experience, Canada Post Corporation

Carrie Chisholm

A significant part of our transformation plan, once it's endorsed and approved by the government, would be part of consultations with the municipalities we would be engaging with, whether in a retail network or community mailboxes. This has to be taken into clear consideration in terms of each municipality—the services the post offices offer and the needs of the community.

Consultation is at the forefront of everything that would be part of our transformation plan to ensure that we have an approach that fits the community. It can't be one-size-fits-all. Each community is too unique to look at it in such a way.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK

Has the minister given you a very clear definition of what “rural” means for the sake of determining what a rural post office would be?

3:40 p.m.

Vice-President, Product Management and Customer Experience, Canada Post Corporation

Carrie Chisholm

From my perspective, in my position, I have not been engaging with those specific conversations, so I can't comment as to whether they've given us a specific definition. It's better to ask that question directly of them.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK

We're still waiting for confirmation of when he'll show up to this committee again.

For you guys at Canada Post, then, do you have your own definition that you utilize when you are referring to something as rural?

3:40 p.m.

Vice-President, Product Management and Customer Experience, Canada Post Corporation

Carrie Chisholm

The definition, as far as I understand from my current point of view, is rooted in the rural moratorium, which is partly why it needs to be relooked at with regard to our statistical data for Canada as opposed to where the boundaries were drawn in 1994.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK

Okay; sounds good. Thank you for that.

I have 30 seconds more. Do you have any specific details of your plan for keeping rural post offices open? Do you have any information on it that you could table with this committee to provide some further assurances? I'm just wondering if there's any further information you'd like to share with this committee. If so, you could send it as a brief.

3:40 p.m.

Vice-President, Product Management and Customer Experience, Canada Post Corporation

Carrie Chisholm

Yes—at this time, though, our transformation plan hasn't been approved. We continue to work with the government to make sure that it's there. I want to reassure this committee that, of course, we recognize the vital role that rural and remote communities play, and this will be part of how we approach this transformation—very carefully, from a municipal perspective.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK

Thank you.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Thanks.

Ms. Chisholm, we have a policy within the committee that for any information we request, we require it within 21 calendar days. That's just so you are aware.

3:40 p.m.

Vice-President, Product Management and Customer Experience, Canada Post Corporation

Carrie Chisholm

Thank you for letting me know.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Mr. Gasparro, the floor is yours.

Vince Gasparro Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

Thank you.

There's been significant discussion at this committee by me and others regarding the preferred rate postage for two specific groups: municipal libraries and blind Canadians. Can you just confirm, as others have confirmed, whether the intention is to maintain these preferential rates and exemptions for libraries and Canadians who are blind?

3:40 p.m.

Vice-President, Product Management and Customer Experience, Canada Post Corporation

Carrie Chisholm

Yes. Yesterday, there was a decision that those provisions within Bill C-15 would be removed. As I mentioned in my opening statements, these services—regardless of how Bill C‑15 would have been shaped with literature for the blind included or reduced rates for library mail—are ones that Canada Post would continue to offer. They're both long-standing services. We're completely proud to offer them and would have continued to do so.

Vince Gasparro Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

Excellent. I know that people in my riding of Eglinton—Lawrence will be very happy to hear that.

I also know that many Canadians are worried about the future of the Canada Post service. In your estimation, what services at Canada Post should be prioritized?

3:45 p.m.

Vice-President, Product Management and Customer Experience, Canada Post Corporation

Carrie Chisholm

Can you specify what you mean by services? I'm assuming delivery services is what you're referring to.