Evidence of meeting #54 for Health in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cdr.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Janis Miyasaki  Associate Clinical Director and Chair of the Technology and Therapeutics Assessment Subcommittee, American Academy of Neurology, University of Toronto
Joel Lexchin  Professor, School of Health Policy and Management, York University
David Bougher  Former Member of the Federal, Provincial and Territorial Pharmaceutical Issues Committee, As an Individual
Linda Tennant  Former Member of the Federal, Provincial and Territorial Pharmaceutical Issues Committee, As an Individual
Louise Binder  Chair, Best Medicines Coalition
Elisabeth Fowler  Vice-President, Health Policy, Ward Health Strategies

4:15 p.m.

Vice-President, Health Policy, Ward Health Strategies

Elisabeth Fowler

Okay.

Thank you for inviting us. I am here from Ward Health Strategies, and I want to send my apologies from Chris Ward. He had every intention of coming, but there was a death in his family, so he couldn't attend. So you are stuck with me instead.

Ward Health Strategies is a health policy communications consultancy, with offices in both Canada and the U.S. Our clients include pharmaceutical and medical device companies, as well as government and health-related non-profit organizations.

I'd like to thank you for inviting us to present today on some of the major issues of drug policy that are impacting the quality and the sustainability of Canada's health care system. It is our perspective that the common drug review, or the CDR, can be viewed as a marker or an instructive example of how and why Canada is falling behind other countries in providing access to health care innovations that both save lives and improve the quality of care by producing better health outcomes.

In Canada, spending on health care consumes more than 10% of gross domestic product and represents the major share of total public sector expenditures. Managing that spending is critically important, putting issues of health care affordability and sustainability at the very top of Canada's public policy agendas.

Canada's population is aging, and as we age we use our health care system more. Today, 62% of Canadians are living with a chronic condition, and 75% of Canadians die from the side effects of these chronic conditions. These figures will rise as more of the baby boom generation reaches retirement age and become seniors.

Most health spending today is on chronic disease and the complications associated with these diseases. According to the Canadian Centre for Chronic Disease Prevention and Control, chronic disease is estimated to account for a full 87% of disability in Canada and two-thirds of all direct health care costs.

Many seniors rely on provincial drug plans for the drugs they need. The provinces and our national government came together to establish a common drug review with the stated goal of reducing duplication and making recommendations about what drugs will be covered by the publicly funded drug benefit plans in Canada.

There has also been some thought that the process of a common drug review can lead to better consistency and drug access in Canada and help form the basis of a future national formulary. From a public policy perspective, these may seem to be reasonable goals. However, from the perspective of Canadian patients, the CDR has been a monumental failure.

In the few short years of its existence, the CDR has already helped put Canada farther behind other countries in terms of health outcomes. Nowhere is this more evident than in the area of cancer. In its annual report card on cancer care in Canada, the Cancer Advocacy Coalition of Canada has clearly demonstrated on a province-by-province basis the association of reduced cancer mortality with increased access to treatment. The CDR has repeatedly recommended against listing of new and innovative cancer treatments. The case of Nexavar and Sutent, the first new hope for kidney cancer patients in over 10 years, is the most recent example. But when you compare the cancer outcomes between the United States and Canada over the last four years, the effective restricting of access to new treatments in Canada is even more alarming.

Between 2000 and 2004, the number of people dying from cancer in the United States has increased by little more than one-tenth of one per cent. In Canada the cancer deaths are up a full 7% for the same period. The American health care system has its share of deficiencies, of course, not the least of which are the more than 40 million people without health insurance. However, Canadians, I'm sure, will be shocked to learn that seniors and individuals living on low incomes in the United States have better access to drugs through publicly funded programs like Medicare Part D and Medicaid than similar populations in Canada who rely on our publicly funded drug programs.

Last year we did an analysis of drug access for American seniors under the U.S. Medicare drug plan and concluded that seniors living in Michigan would have access to 82% of the drugs that had been reviewed by the CDR by the beginning of 2006. In contrast, a senior living in Ontario would have access to only 15% of these drugs.

We believe this disparity has grown, and will continue to grow, unless government drug plans ignore the CDR recommendations that act as a barrier to new drug access in Canada. Medical innovation has had a profound effect and a profound impact on the prevention, treatment, and management of chronic disease. Let's take another example. Although it is still the number one cause of death in Canada, the death rate from heart disease and stroke has been cut in half over the last 30 years. In fact this year it is likely that cancer will replace heart disease as the number one cause of death in Canada.

Better knowledge about the risk factors associated with cardiovascular disease has led to a number of interventions that have had a profound impact on health outcomes. New medicines help people control their blood pressure and cholesterol. New medical devices and surgical interventions also play a part. The challenge for health policy-makers in funding medical innovation is to ensure that decisions are not based solely on cost containment--in other words, simply managing the supply side of drugs, devices, and procedures. The focus instead needs to be, must be, on improving outcomes through early detection and screening, preventing chronic disease, managing the risk factors associated with chronic disease, and reducing complications. Of course, access to drugs is not the only thing that will make a difference in an aging population. In order to increase health outcomes for individuals living with chronic diseases, health promotion and detection programs are important, as are screening programs and access to the physicians who treat the patients.

One has only to look at the difference in drug coverage between public and private sector employer-sponsored drug plans and government-sponsored drug plans for seniors and other vulnerable populations to realize that employers understand far better than governments the importance of improving health outcomes by providing better access to medical innovation. Employers fully understand the importance of maintaining the health of employees so that they can remain productive, so that they can remain out of hospitals and out of long-term care facilities and therefore avoid the costs associated with both long- and short-term disability. This approach would be equally advantageous if applied to those who rely on the publicly funded drug benefit programs.

Ultimately, oversight of the common drug review is from its board of directors, which consists of federal, provincial, and territorial deputy ministers of health, who in turn are appointed by the premiers and the Prime Minister. Those making decisions for the CDR have clearly demonstrated that their primary interest is to contain costs, and they have responded to the issues of health system sustainability by making it increasingly difficult for those using public drug plans to get access to the drugs they need to maintain their health.

Chronic conditions are costly. The Canadian Coalition for Public Health estimates that chronic conditions cost our economy over $77 billion in 2005 and that two-thirds of direct health costs and 60% of indirect health costs result from chronic disease. If a chronic condition is maintained and treated, however, many of these more costly complications can be avoided.

The Canadian Institutes for Health Research have indicated that prescribed and non-prescribed drugs are among the fastest growing components of our health care system, that they now consume over 17% of our health care budget. This is seen by most to be a cause of great alarm and an indication that our health care budgets are spiralling out of control. However, we believe that a perfect health care system is one in which an even greater proportion of health spending is consumed by drugs and vaccines that manage or prevent disease and its complications.

It is unlikely that the outcomes I mentioned earlier in the U.S. are related to overall quality of their health care system alone, as Canadians do have better access to acute care than their counterparts in the U.S. Canada also has fewer uninsured residents than the U.S., but there is no doubt that access to treatments is making a difference in the health of populations as well as in terms of health care spending.

Putting more money into giving Canadians access to drugs will improve health outcomes. Allowing Canadians to have access to vaccines, to drugs to manage chronic conditions, coupled with patient education on compliance and adherence programs and monitoring for adverse events, can help ensure that Canadians are among the healthiest in the world.

In conclusion, we believe the CDR needs a major shift in order to properly serve the needs of Canadians and their health care system. The CDR needs to broaden its perspective and begin truly looking at the advantages of incorporating new health technologies into our system.

The CDR must allow physicians to care for their patients with the best tools available, and the CDR needs to allow more patients to be involved in the decisions it makes.

Thank you.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

Thank you very much.

Thank you to the entire panel for your presentations.

Now we'll move to the questioning and answering part of our meeting, which I'm sure promises to be interesting. We have some interesting and different opinions at the table.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON

Maybe they should just talk amongst themselves. We'll just chair it, Mr. Chair.

4:25 p.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

Yes, we'll just referee it.

Nonetheless, we'll start with Ms. Carolyn Bennett, and she's going to be sharing her time with Ms. Fry.

You have five minutes. Go ahead.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON

Obviously, it's interesting, in that there are two different ways of going about it. It seems that almost the more specific the drug.... The cancer people didn't seem very happy with having their drug declined, in terms of kidney cancer, and, Louise, we're hearing from you that you have also had a similar experience.

It sounds like people feel that if practitioners and citizens and patients were more involved in the decisions, maybe you would get a better outcome. I'm worried that I'm hearing that the only answer is to just abandon it, when at the same time I understand from the national pharmaceuticals strategy that we would like one day to end up with a national formulary.

If that's the case, and the EU can do that, and we've got five formularies for the federal government alone, how do we move to this goal of a national formulary? What would that look like? If you were writing the recommendations for this committee, how do we use the problems and some successes with the CDR to get us to what we really want, which would be that regardless of where you live in this country, you get the drugs you need?

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

Who would like to start?

Go ahead, Joel.

4:25 p.m.

Professor, School of Health Policy and Management, York University

Dr. Joel Lexchin

There is no easy answer, obviously, to your question, but certainly there are a number of factors that you need to consider. First of all, there is the difference in the financial ability of provinces. As long as your drug programs are province-based, you have to deal with the reality that different provinces have different levels of financial resources. In fact, if you look at the—

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON

If you don't mind, Joel, just to stop you there, I think on expensive drugs for rare diseases, we, as a country, have decided that's not right. For Fabry's disease, where most of the patients live in Nova Scotia and Alberta, we've decided we want to share that risk. So if what we do in this country is share risk on those kinds of things, then that's not an assumption that all of us would accept.

4:25 p.m.

Professor, School of Health Policy and Management, York University

Dr. Joel Lexchin

We're not sharing risk, though, for all the rest of the drugs. If you look at public spending per capita on drugs, it's very closely related to provincial GDP per capita. The more money the provinces have, the more money they have to spend on drugs.

So unless you're looking at a national drug plan whereby the federal government assumes the responsibility, you have to look at mechanisms of equalizing the resources the different provinces have. Some provinces will reject drugs that are either expensive for small numbers of people or expensive overall because large numbers of people are going to be taking them for long periods of time; other provinces won't. There's no getting around that. P.E.I. cannot afford the same level of drug costs as Alberta can.

The federal government is either going to have to take over the whole shot, or the federal government is going to have to work out some kind of a cost-sharing agreement with the provinces so that the provinces can do better.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

Anybody?

Janis Miyasaki, the floor is yours.

4:30 p.m.

Associate Clinical Director and Chair of the Technology and Therapeutics Assessment Subcommittee, American Academy of Neurology, University of Toronto

Dr. Janis Miyasaki

I don't think I can come up with a solution for the honourable member, but I'd like to address her concerns about how we can make the reviews more reflective of Canadian values.

For the non-physicians in the group, I think it's important to understand what we mean by evidence-based medicine and what we mean by levels of evidence.

I've provided some information to Carmen DePape, which she will have translated for you, and I believe you'll be able to have it for your review later this evening.

If you look at the level of evidence required to be what is called “class one evidence”, which is the highest level of evidence, you have to have a prospective, which means a study in the future; randomized, which means patients have equal chance of being on a placebo or the active drug; controlled clinical trials--and they have four other criteria for them. That is an awfully high bar to meet, and the conduct of the trial has to be absolutely perfect, with not an excessive amount of dropouts for the patients. But this is the bar that seems to be used with the common drug review, at least in my experience.

We do deal with patients in the real world. It is impossible, generally, to have a perfect trial. It is impossible to satisfy what every policy group will want as the most important outcome. And as we've heard from the patient group, other factors may not be taken into account, even in a pharmo-economic analysis performed by interested parties. They may not take into account things that she mentioned, such as the quality of life issues.

The fix to that is not really just abandoning the whole process, nor is it opening it up so that it becomes really a clash of advocacy groups and who has the loudest voice, because we are interested in distributive justice when we provide funding for treatments. It is looking at the evidence and acknowledging that we can't always have a perfect study.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

Thank you very much.

We'll move on to Ms. Hedy Fry.

May 9th, 2007 / 4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Hedy Fry Liberal Vancouver Centre, BC

Thank you.

Actually, Dr. Miyasaki answered a lot of the questions I was going to ask, but I've heard very many people say that the CDR should be abandoned because it's not doing a good job, and we should go back to the provincial groups because our provincial pals are already doing the same thing and it's a duplication of effort.

I disagree with that because I agree with what Carolyn Bennett was saying. If we're looking at distributive justice, we want to make sure that everyone across the country has access to certain drugs. At the same time, I hear from Mr. Lexchin how we have too many people with clinical backgrounds, because they bring a bias. I don't know if that's what he intended to say, but that's what I heard him say. I also heard Dr. Miyasaki saying we need to have more people with clinical expertise and knowledge of evidence-based medicine to be on this, because if you're going to have cost effectiveness, cost effectiveness is about cost and outcome and quality of life.

I believe we need to look at how the CDR is constituted and whether we're getting the best answers to the question. Distributive justice means that it doesn't really matter if P.E.I. cannot afford it. We need to be able to find some formula that would allow us to expand what Prince Edward Islands needs if they cannot afford it. Otherwise we have walked away from the whole concept of access in this country. If all you can do is have access to investigation and access to hospitals but you don't have access to treatment, what is the point? You tell me nicely that I can get all kinds of tests, but when it comes to getting better, unless I have money, I can't. The federal government does have to assume some cost-sharing role, I believe, if this is going to work.

I think Dr. Miyasaki has an important point to make on why we need to expand this, not only to bureaucracies that decide only on cost, but to people who understand evidence-based care and who understand the clinical care of the patient to bring about that side of the effect. If we're going to bring about patients, we need to bring about people who will represent patients, in large, in general. Otherwise, we're going to have advocacy groups all fighting over what should be acceptable and not, and we will miss the whole result.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

Do you have a question?

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Hedy Fry Liberal Vancouver Centre, BC

My question actually is for Mr. Lexchin.

Do you not agree that the concept of distributive justice is important in this, that the values of Canada with regard to access to treatment is an important one, and that we should expand the CDR?

4:35 p.m.

Professor, School of Health Policy and Management, York University

Dr. Joel Lexchin

First of all, it's Dr. Lexchin.

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Hedy Fry Liberal Vancouver Centre, BC

I'm sorry, Dr. Lexchin.

4:35 p.m.

Professor, School of Health Policy and Management, York University

Dr. Joel Lexchin

Second, I never said anything about whether or not there should be more or less clinical expertise on CDR. All I was doing was pointing out that the CDR decisions are broadly in line with decisions made by similar groups that use similar levels of evidence.

I do agree that we need to provide resources. That was my point. Either the federal government takes over the entire plan and runs it so that it's equal across the country, or, if you leave it as a provincially based program, you have to be able to work out a federal cost-sharing arrangement so that the provinces that are poorer are able to access the same level of resources as provinces that are richer.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

We have a bit of a problem. We have Linda Tennant--I'll allow a quick answer there--and then Dr. Janis Miyasaki.

4:35 p.m.

Former Member of the Federal, Provincial and Territorial Pharmaceutical Issues Committee, As an Individual

Linda Tennant

I just want to say that David and I had proposed that in fact CDR be increased in terms of the clinical expertise that was used at the table for certain drug discussions, and it's very much in line with what Dr. Miyasaki said.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

Okay.

Dr. Miyasaki.

4:35 p.m.

Associate Clinical Director and Chair of the Technology and Therapeutics Assessment Subcommittee, American Academy of Neurology, University of Toronto

Dr. Janis Miyasaki

I would like to address the issue of what comparators we use. Various panellists have mentioned comparing to Australia or Scotland or comparing to Medicare in the United States. I would say that I definitely know comparing to Medicare in the United States is not an appropriate measure, since the majority of people are not covered by Medicare and Medicaid. In fact, they are covered more likely by UnitedHealthcare, and the UnitedHealthcare has a very different drug formulary than Medicare does. When we're comparing formularies, we need to look at what countries have the models we want, not just what is close or what highlights the disparities.

I think it is an issue of looking appropriately at what countries' values are and whether we share those values. That's the best way to look at how we should craft our drug review process.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

Thank you very much.

Madame Gagnon, please go ahead.

4:35 p.m.

Bloc

Christiane Gagnon Bloc Québec, QC

Mr. Lexchin, you conducted a study that gave you some results. The CDR process did not seem satisfactory to you. You made comparisons with Australia, among other countries, and you are coming to the conclusion that the CDR is effective or adequate in terms of evaluation time and program efficiency. You also came to the conclusion that it was comparable to other countries' processes, that the same results were obtained, and that we have no more or no fewer products.

I would like to bring you back here, to Canada. You did not conduct a comparison with Quebec. In Quebec, more products are on the market and less time is taken. Perhaps it is because of financial or human resources, but I would like to know why Quebec works better. It is held up as a model. You went all the way to Australia to find out that the evaluation processes are similar.

I am anxious to read your evaluation to understand your approach, because there are some holes in what you said.