Health Committee on June 9th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

I would like to call the meeting to order, ladies and gentlemen.

I want to welcome our guests today from the Department of Health. We're going to be studying Bill C-32, an act to amend the Tobacco Act.

First of all, as we usually do, we're going to listen to the witnesses. You have a ten-minute presentation, and I understand, Mr. Glover, you're taking the lead to present today. Then we'll have our questions and answers as usual.

We will have a change of witnesses at 4:30, and I will introduce them at that time.

Mr. Glover, you have the floor.

[Paul Glover, Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I'm pleased to be with you again this week on a different topic, Bill C-32.

I'm joined today again by Diane Labelle, from the Department of Justice, legal counsel for Health Canada; Cathy Sabiston, director general of the program; and Denis Choinière, an expert in the area.

Last week I was here discussing the Canada Consumer Product Safety Act, and there were several amendments related to tobacco products and their fit within the scope. It's my pleasure to be here today to speak to you regarding the important amendments to the Tobacco Act that will help to modernize this important piece of legislation to keep pace with the constantly evolving marketing practices of the tobacco industry.

Health Canada is the lead department for the Government of Canada's Federal Tobacco Control Strategy. Delivery of the Federal Strategy is coordinated across a number of departments and agencies including the Canada Revenue Agency, Canada Border Services Agency, Public Safety Canada and the RCMP.

The efforts of our federal partners are critical to the success of the strategy, particularly work related to regulating, verifying, monitoring, and assessing, and to the changes in the contraband tobacco environment. The overall objective of the strategy is to reduce death and disease in Canada caused by tobacco usage. Over 37,000 Canadians die every year from tobacco usage, and it costs the health care system over $4.4 billion a year in direct costs.

The strategy is comprehensive in nature, working in areas such as smoking cessation, preventing youth from starting to smoke, protecting Canadians from the effects of second-hand smoke, as well as product regulation. It is by nature a comprehensive strategy that works with provinces and territories, public stakeholders, and non-governmental tobacco control organizations to reduce smoking rates in Canada.

Health Canada also administers the Tobacco Act. The act regulates the manufacturing, sale, labelling and promotion of tobacco products. It was upheld after a ten-year legal challenge by the tobacco industry.

Canada's work under the federal tobacco control strategy and the Tobacco Act has been adopted internationally and has formed the basis for the World Health Organization's Framework Convention on Tobacco Control, the world's first public health treaty.

While we are interested in helping other countries at very early stages of tobacco control, we are also very aware of what's been happening within Canada, especially over the past few years. We have noticed dramatic changes in the tobacco marketplace. We have noticed that the tobacco industry as a whole has started marketing some tobacco products with new flavours that may be especially appealing to youth. It is possible that members of the committee have not seen these products, since they are required to be out of sight at retail. When you see the products addressed in Bill C-32, you'll know that something has to be done.

I'd like to show you a couple of examples. I'll hold these up. I know some people might have sensitivities, so we won't pass them out. These are products that exist today.

This is a package of Aloha. These are chocolate-banana flavoured cigarettes. These are Dutch chocolate, available today.

These are what we refer to as the cigarillos, and they're sold in singles in these nice little containers that look like markers.

These are also examples of cigarillos, available today on the marketplace, sold in singles like this. This is a pack of cigarillos as well, again, put in a small package. I don't know what image that brings to your mind. I won't tell you what it brings to mine, but it's not cigars or cigarettes right from the outset.

There are other challenges we face, for example, in some cases how small the health warning messages are getting and the ability to see those as we move forward. And with respect, this is one of my personal surprises--vitamin-enriched cigarettes, VitaCig. These are all available today. Staff from my office were able to purchase these.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Mr. Glover, just to let you know, we will not be passing the products around today.

[Paul Glover]

Yes, I understand that.

We will take some pictures and have it translated and tabled for the committee, if that's helpful as we move forward.

Because this act does deal with advertising, I'll just hold up a couple of these. This is the Canadian edition of Time magazine, and you can see inside what is available in terms of advertising that has started again.

These are the new dailies that we're starting to see. These are available and distributed free, oftentimes at bus stops and other places like that. So it's not really clear, exactly, who is able to pick that up, but pretty much anybody.

There are examples of some of the large advertisements we're starting to see.

Again, it's very targeted and very strategic in terms of some of the things we thought you might like to see, in terms of some of the specific examples we're trying to address with Bill C-32.

For the sake of time, I will return to my presentation.

Following the Supreme Court of Canada ruling in late July 2007, the tobacco industry has been increasingly advertising tobacco products. Our research shows that over 86% of these have been appearing in free weekly publications, which I just showed you, which are easily accessible to youth. Also, evidence clearly indicates that the sales of flavoured little cigars have grown from 53 million units in 2001 to 403 million units in 2007, and that 25% of youth between the ages of 15 and 17 have tried smoking a little cigar. Our understanding is that this is the fastest growing product category right now.

These flavoured little cigars are relatively new to the Canadian market place. They are produced in flavours such as chocolate, grape and tropical punch. The tobacco industry's own documents show that they use flavouring to make them more appealing to young people.

Given what we know in terms of the resurgence in tobacco advertising, the ability of flavoured tobacco products and their alarming growth in the Canadian market, there is a need to act now to put an end to marketing practices that could induce youth to start smoking. As I mentioned earlier, prevention is a key element to a successful tobacco control strategy. Ultimately, as I said earlier, our objective is to prevent new people from starting to smoke if we're going to be successful in driving down further the number of Canadians who smoke.

In May of this year, Bill C-32, the cracking down on tobacco marketing aimed at youth act, was introduced by the Minister of Health to address these issues.

Very quickly, five key components of the legislation are the following.

The first one is banning all advertising in publications that may be seen or read by children and youth. Tobacco advertising will no longer be allowed in publications that have an adult readership of 85% or more. By definition, these publications could have 15% youth readership. This will prevent tobacco advertisements from appearing in newspapers, magazines, and free entertainment weeklies that could be viewed by children and youth.

The second one is banning flavours and additives in little cigars in blunt wraps. Under the Tobacco Act, there are currently no restrictions on the addition and marketing of flavours and additives to tobacco products. The bill will ban the addition of flavours, except menthol, and other additives such as vitamins, sugars, sweeteners, and colouring agents, from cigarettes to little cigars and blunt wraps.

The third one is banning the use of representations or pictures on the front of packaging of these products so that it cannot be implied that the flavour is in the product. For example, a picture of cherries on a package of little cigars, blunt wraps, or cigarettes will not be permitted.

The fourth one is ensuring that little cigars and blunts are sold in packages of 20 or more, because it will increase the price point, and price is a key factor in whether youth start to smoke or not. The Tobacco Act already requires that cigarettes be sold in a package containing at least 20 units, so this would bring this in line.

And the fifth one is creating a schedule so that the government can take faster action to ban other products or additives should they be found to encourage youth to start smoking.

The proposed legislation does exclude menthol from the flavour ban. This legislation is focused on the new and emerging fruit and candy flavours.

Research shows that nearly 8 of 10 young people who try smoking a whole cigarette before they turn 20 go on to become smokers at some point in their lifetime. The legislation before you today for discussion sets out a direction to ensure the continued protection of youth from inducements of these new tobacco products that are clearly targeted at them.

My officials and I will now be pleased to respond to any questions you may have on Bill C-32.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you very much.

We will go directly into questions, because it's my understanding, Mr. Glover, that you are doing the presentation for the whole group.

[Paul Glover]

That is correct.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you.

We will start with Ms. Murray.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Just to clarify, are these seven-minute rounds?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

They are seven-minute rounds for questions and answers.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Okay.

Thanks for the presentation. All of us don't like the idea of children being tricked into an addiction to tobacco smoking or tobacco use, so it's a good thing to be mindful of that.

You were talking about fruit and banning flavours and additives. Could you clarify? That was for little cigars and blunts? And then you added something that was being banned from cigarettes as well.

[Paul Glover]

Thank you very much for the question.

I will turn to my colleague, Denis, to get into some of the more specific details, but the objective is to ban flavours in cigarettes and little cigars and blunts, with the exception of menthol.

Denis, have you points to add?

[Denis Choinière, Director, Office of Regulations and Compliance, Tobacco Control Program, Department of Health]

If you look at page 7 of the bill, you'll see the product categories that are targeted are cigarettes, little cigars, and blunt wraps. All the prohibited additives that are listed in column 1, such as flavourings, amino acids, caffeine, colouring agents, vitamins, mineral nutrients, and so forth, all apply to the same three categories.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

What I am trying to understand--and it seems as though it may be the case--is whether we are treating all the categories of tobacco products equally. There has been some concern that some products are being treated differently from others. I would like you to address that from a conceptual perspective, from a public policy perspective. Are we creating an even playing field for any of the purveyors of these legal, though obviously not healthy, consumer products?

[Paul Glover]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

In response to that question, we do intend through this bill to ensure that there is a level playing field, and that's why, as my colleague indicated, there are schedules being created. As we see the introduction of new product categories or flavours, we'll be able to amend those schedules over time. This is not one point in time fixed forever. We would be able to return to those schedules over time as appropriate if we saw new product classes or potentially new ingredients that also might be further inducements to youth.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

My concern is really the access that young people and children might have to tobacco products. I'd like to find out whether, in your view, the prohibition of the new flavoured products will end up driving those products into the black market.

I was at a justice committee hearing on drug and gang crime about a month and a half ago, and there was a lot of testimony about the impacts historically of prohibition in terms of creating more opportunities for organized crime, with the product still getting into the hands of the people who want to consume the product, and then it being outside of the ability of government to regulate and tax and apply restrictions to that product to protect the most vulnerable. The concern has been raised that we may be doing that with these flavoured products and that there may be a more detrimental result in the end.

Could you speak about how the changes you are proposing relate to the concerns around prohibition?

[Paul Glover]

Thank you, Madam Chair, for the member's question.

I'll will turn to my colleague Director General Cathy Sabiston to complement my answer, but my short response to that is a bit of yes and no, unfortunately. Any time we move to prohibit a product, then by the very nature of prohibition, some of that product is driven onto the black market. At the same time, that's why the strategy is comprehensive in terms of what we do and why we work with other federal departments to deal with contraband and other issues.

It's important for the government to take action on these things so they stop being sold in singles, and that we start to see the legal and what is clearly the fastest growing product category being made available to our youth. We believe taking any steps we can to make that more difficult, while at the same time we work with our partners in other federal departments to further reduce not just this but all contraband products, is the right direction for us to take.

Cathy, can you add to that?

[Cathy Sabiston, Director General, Controlled Substances and Tobacco Directorate, Department of Health]

I think you were very comprehensive.

One minor comment is that under the federal tobacco control strategy, our partners in Public Safety, the RCMP and others receive funding to monitor the marketplace for contraband. They are in the best position to respond to that question.

[Paul Glover]

My colleague from the Department of Justice has a quick point to add.

[Diane Labelle, General Counsel, Legal Services Unit, Department of Health]

The government's strongest enforcement tools on contraband are in the Excise Tax Act and the Criminal Code. Those are the tools being used.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Does the appropriate department have the staff and resources to be able to do compliance, enforcement, and apply those tools?

With additional products that might be expected to boost the contraband market, is there anything in this bill that would add to the resources to tighten up the compliance and enforcement side?

[Paul Glover]

The member's question has a number of elements. First, on whether there are enough resources, as bureaucrats in departments we're instructed to make do with the resources that parliamentarians, in their wisdom, have allocated to these different issues. It's really not my place as an official to pass that kind of judgment. The resources are appropriated to us and we develop work plans based on them.

On the second element, we work in partnership with all our colleagues in other departments. They are aware of this legislation and are supportive of it. It does not specifically include incremental resources to deal with the issues they are already dealing with.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you, Mr. Glover.

Monsieur Dufour.

[Nicolas Dufour, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to thank our witnesses for coming.

I appreciated the questions that my colleague, Ms. Murray, asked about smuggling cigarettes. You were saying that as a general rule, young people were beginning with the cigarillos before they really began smoking. I have to tell you that I myself saw many of these young kids who began smoking these little cigars. Although I support Bill C-32—I even defended it in the House of Commons—you must realize that flavoured cigarillos are legal in the united States.

To some extent, my question follows up on Ms. Murray's remarks. Don't you fear that smuggling will rise if they just prohibit these small flavoured cigars without taking any practical measures? Because young people have no difficulty travelling several kilometres to get boxes of these little cigars at less than $10 per box.

[Denis Choinière]

In fact, we are already seeing these little cigars amongst the various items that the RCMP and other police forces have seized, and indeed, it is because of the price. You are right, it is an appealing option for smugglers to make some money quickly. They really do not care whether they are smuggling small cigars, cigarettes or other products; as we frequently see, smugglers do not make many distinctions amongst the various items.

This is not a new phenomenon. The other federal agencies that Mr. Glover was mentioning have the same problem, namely smuggling, be it smuggling of little cigars or cigarettes.

[Nicolas Dufour, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Are you not afraid that banning these products will increase smuggling?