Health Committee on June 9th, 2009

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

It's no problem, Madam Chair.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I am very pleased to see this legislation come forward. It was certainly a campaign commitment, I recall very clearly, in the summer. So again, it's a good piece of legislation.

I have a few questions. The first question, which we have asked about other bills, is what kind of consultation process you did. Did you have any sort of consultation process as you created this bill?

[Paul Glover]

Madam Chair, the member's question is an interesting one.

At some level, given the member's framing of the question, it had the ultimate consultation, as somebody described it to me, in that it was part of a platform commitment. Therefore, that drove the extent to which the department consulted on this, which is to say that it was targeted and limited, given that it was a platform commitment and that there was significant discussion.

I will turn to my colleagues to further round out that answer.

[Denis Choinière]

We did issue a consultation document about a year ago on the issue of minimum quantities for little cigars only. Although it was only on this issue, most stakeholders did comment as well on the issue of flavours. So it was used, as well as consultations, if you will, with provincial colleagues. As you may have seen, some provinces have proposed legislation on little cigars. So we did have some consultation with those partners.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

To follow up, you indicated some provinces have headed a little bit down this path already. Are there any concerns about a patchwork? Does this legislation align with where the provinces have gone?

[Paul Glover]

Thank you very much for the question. This piece of legislation is important, in the Department of Health's view, because it will allow the federal system to catch up with the patchwork that exists across the country and establish clear national standards that would apply in all jurisdictions. Right now some jurisdictions are actually ahead of the federal government, and we do have that variation; this would ensure national consistency, both for smokers and for the industry as it moves forward, and would help deal with the patchwork that currently exists.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

In the jurisdictions that have moved forward ahead of the federal government, are you aware if any of the issues we've been talking about were included in their particular legislation--for example, menthol or smokeless tobacco?

[Denis Choinière]

Yes. Bill 124--I hope it's the right number--went through the Ontario Legislative Assembly last fall. It also dealt with issues related to the weight and the 1.4 gram criterion for little cigars. It also left some room to be able to go back with regulations and specify exactly if there were any exemptions for flavours. We understand that menthol was also one of the issues they were examining, just as we are examining today.

[Paul Glover]

If I might summarize, we work closely with them, and we do not see huge differences with respect to the actions we are taking and where those provinces that have chosen to move forward have gone.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I would say that the feedback I've had is almost universally in favour, although there are people, as my colleague Ms. Wasylycia-Leis suggested, who do have a few concerns. One of the arguments they've put forward has to do with the curtaining of products so that children aren't seeing them and are not enticed. Could you speak to that particular issue? Do they indeed remain enticing to children even though they don't see them in stores?

[Paul Glover]

Thank you very much. Madam Chair, I want to acknowledge that I did not answer the NDP member's question when that was raised as well.

I'll turn to my colleagues to deal with the issue of retail.

[Cathy Sabiston]

It's not the intent of the bill to interfere with information at retail. By removing the advertising described in paragraph 22(2)(b), we will no longer allow publications in Canada, as Mr. Glover was showing earlier. That's the intent; it's not to impact at the retail level.

There are still a number of opportunities for the industry to advertise. One is direct mail to an adult; another is signs at retail to show price and availability. Health Canada does have further regulatory authority, should it become necessary.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you, Ms. McLeod.

We now go to Madame Bonsant.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I must tell you that I am only visiting, so to speak, because I am not a member of this committee. So if I ask any questions that you already answered at other meetings, please pardon me.

No one at today's meeting has mentioned the ban on selling cigarettes to minors. Why isn't that ban included in this bill?

[Denis Choinière]

Thank you.

Actually, the prohibition on selling cigarettes to minors is already found in section 8 of the Tobacco Act. So the ban is already in the current legislation.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

I see.

[Denis Choinière]

That is why the ban is not found in this act to amend the Tobacco Act; it is already in the Tobacco Act.

Despite this ban, we realize that young people are able to get cigarettes. So we have introduced other measures to make it harder for young people to get cigarettes. Price is one way, as well as the requirement for a minimum of packaging.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

I see.

In Quebec, people who sell cigarettes to minors must pay a huge fine. Furthermore, cigarettes are not displayed in the stores. That does help, perhaps when it comes to young people. I was thinking of the Quebec legislation, and that is why I asked whether such a ban was part of this bill.

You said that the bill would prohibit tobacco advertising on displays. However, I have some reservations about selling cigarettes in packs of 20. Don't you think that even if young people no longer buy packages of 20 cigarettes, they will still buy the little cigarettes that are not flavoured? A package of these little cigars does not contain the same number as a package of cigarettes. Do the same regulations apply in both cases? Will we see packages of 20 little cigars and packages of 20 small cigarettes?

[Denis Choinière]

Actually, the ban on selling cigarettes in packages of less than 20, or selling cigarettes individually, already exists. In this case, we are bringing the requirements up to the same level for the little cigarettes and the blunt wraps, so that they are considered in the same way and so that people do not switch from one product to another.

[Paul Glover]

The goal is to strike a balance amongst the three types of products.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

People have been talking a lot about smuggling, but no one has talked about smuggling on the native reserves. Will police officers be visiting the native reserves? You do realize that many people go there to buy cigarettes and cigars.

[Paul Glover]

Madam Chair, that's a good question, but unfortunately, my department and my colleagues are not in a...

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

I see.

[Paul Glover]

You would have to put that question to the Department...

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

To the Department of Justice or the Public Security department?