Health Committee on May 6th, 2010

[Ron Reaman]

I'm sorry, I'm going to have to ask you to repeat the question. I didn't quite catch it all.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

In terms of the food services industry, Mr. Godefroy mentioned there are options. What are those options in terms of trying to--

[Ron Reaman]

For reducing trans fat?

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

Yes.

[Ron Reaman]

We've been engaged in that process for a number of years now and we have made significant progress across the industry. What I tried to say earlier is that there are certain segments within our industry that have had some challenges with respect to securing trans-free supply, so that's our challenge.

As a result of the regulatory regime that exists in Canada, on a regional basis we have been uniquely challenged because regulations at that local level have forced us to essentially police the food supply up the value chain. That's an untenable position for us, so we're caught right now, and that's my key message to you today.

We're not here asking for regulations because we believe that the food industry, writ large, has not done an excellent job in reducing trans fat; to the contrary, I think the evidence from the trans fat monitoring program and from what we know from working with our membership and our colleagues across the food industry shows that we have made great strides at reducing trans fat. Our challenge is really a patchwork, inconsistent, unlevel playing field that's been established by local regulations pursued by local governments.

I don't know if that answers your question.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

I was just reading the section of the presentation that said there is not the same degree of success in terms of the restaurant and food service sector. If we aren't able to meet the goals, what--

[Ron Reaman]

I'm sorry, but I have to take exception. The data are actually very clear. They are not mine. They are factual. The information is from the Health Canada trans fat data--

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

I'm just reading from the presentation, though. It said that there is not the same degree of--

[Ron Reaman]

Okay, well, I would take exception from that position, then.

[Dr. Samuel Godefroy]

The assessment was made on the data collected as part of the monitoring program, and the monitoring program has shown that the food service sector did not evolve with the same speed as the prepackaged sector in the reduction of trans fats.

That's based on a collection of samples that went beyond the major food service providers, so it was essentially the big chains. Where we have seen really slow uptake is more in the medium- and small-sized food service and restaurant outlets, and that's what is captured in the trans fat monitoring program.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

Do you have any suggestions on how we can make more progress in the small and medium-sized outlets?

[Dr. Samuel Godefroy]

I think it has to do with the availability of the supply, so it would be having more supply that would no longer have the trans fat alternative, such as resorting to other sources such as the canola sources that were mentioned by industry. There are already frying oil alternatives that would completely mitigate and eliminate the level of trans fats. It's really the availability and the uptake of those sources. As well, it's really the uptake by industry.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

I see that we collect data every seven months. Do we know what our international context is now? I realize that in the mid-1990s it was a more challenging position for Canada. Are we playing more of a leadership role now?

[Dr. Samuel Godefroy]

I believe Canada is definitely playing a leadership role in North America because we have taken action early on. As I mentioned, Canada was the first jurisdiction to mandate the labelling of trans fat in the nutritional facts table. Also, reduction efforts as a result of the task force on trans fat have been witnessed. If we look at the comparison between the U.S. food supply right now and the Canadian food supply, there are differences. Definitely a leadership role has been taken by Canada in North America in reducing the intake of trans fat.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you, Mr. Brown.

We'll now go to Monsieur Dufour.

[Nicolas Dufour, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I too want to thank our witnesses.

Mr. Hetherington, a little earlier Mr. Malo asked you a question about Mr. Marangoni. You answered that the difficulty is that his product is not currently in the marketplace. But, when one has four years to prepare for the regulation of trans fats, one should use any means available and look outside the box. One should try to go a bit further and, if somebody has a good idea, try to make use of it and develop that product.

[Paul Hetherington]

With regard to the gentleman in question, his ability to bring the product to market, I believe--and I would have to get back to the member to specify--was a result of challenges he was facing in production, not necessarily in demand for the product. He had issues associated with how he could produce the product, but they were not market-driven issues. It was simply an internal problem he was encountering with actually physically making it.

That's my understanding. As I said, I'd have to clarify that.

I hope that answers your question.

[Nicolas Dufour, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Godefroy, since the beginning, you have mentioned other options besides regulating. You talked about new crops. Are these your only other options? If we decide to develop new varieties, this could take a very long time. It cannot be done in two weeks. So action would be delayed another two or three years, which would result in a host of issues and problems, from the pressure on hospitals to health problems for people.

Are your options really limited to a new crop?

[Dr. Samuel Godefroy]

I would like to clarify the way I presented the various options. The regulatory option is on the table. We must assess how it would work, especially enforcement-wise. If we go with a regulatory option, if we want to bring trans fats down to the level recommended by the working group, we must ensure that it is feasible, that the regulations can be implemented and enforced...

[Nicolas Dufour, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

But you have had four years of discussions and something came out of it. Everybody around the table is happy with the work that was done. I do not doubt that you have done excellent work. However, when it is time to translate words into action, something seems to be missing and it is on the government's side. You have done your job, but the government is dragging its feet. All sorts of ideas have been raised but, all of a sudden, it seems we are in a no man's land. No one knows in which direction we should go.

[Dr. Samuel Godefroy]

This is why I want to tie the regulatory option to the availability of alternatives. In order for the regulatory option to be effective, to result in a reduction of trans fats, we need a source of oilseeds that will allow us to reach that goal.

The regulatory option is on the table. We need to analyze its implementation and its impact. We are talking about a public health goal. The goal is to reduce the intake of trans fat to less than 1% of total energy intake. All of these solutions are tools. We must determine how they can be combined.

[Nicolas Dufour, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Ms. Brown, you have been listening to our discussions since 9 a.m. What is your thinking and what do you expect to do to push the government to implement regulations? What do you intend to do in order to get things to move forward?

[Sally Brown]

Well, we're trying to do all we can. We certainly are active on the file.

If you wouldn't mind, I will speak to some of the issues that came up and our perspective on them.

I was happy to hear from Sean that safer alternatives exist. We need to get them into the supply chain.

I want to mention a couple of things. First of all, the issue of natural trans fats is important, but at the time of the task force it wasn't clear that they were as dangerous as processed trans fats. They're going to stay in the food supply. They're in the meats and everything else. It's all the more important to get all the processed trans fats out, because with the natural trans fats, we're going to have some in our diet anyway. I think that point has been missed.

The other point is that these new supplies are often more expensive. That's why the small and medium-sized producers aren't using them. Once the monitoring pressure is off, it's very likely they won't change.

We also know that even though there are margarines available, there are still hard margarines in the grocery stores that are cheaper. They are being bought by people on limited budgets. What are we saying to them? We're saying we don't really care whether their health is affected by trans fats because they're still able to buy low-cost hard margarines. That is an option that makes sense to them because it's cheaper. In that way we have to level the playing field in terms of the supply as well. Remember that we have subpopulations that are more at risk unless this is changed; we know young males and children are more at risk because of their dietary patterns and what they eat.

We know that labelling has worked, but remember that 38 cents of every dollar spent on food in Canada is spent outside the home, where there is no labelling. That's very important to remember. We buy a huge percentage of food in restaurants and food service places.

With all due respect to Health Canada's statement that it will take time to determine the regulatory effect on trade, that issue came up in the task force report, and four years have passed. I can't believe we don't know the answer to that, frankly, but we don't.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you very much, Ms. Brown.

Go ahead, Dr. Carrie.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I'd like to clarify a couple of statements. Mr. Hetherington, you made a very interesting one in your opening remarks. You said we basically started at 4%, and with the data that was taken as at 2008, we were down to 1.4%. I think you were trying to make the point that since 2008 you have been continuing to progress on reformulations. We've heard in the past that it can take up to two years to reformulate products, and sometimes even more than that, so I commend you on the changes you've made in a relatively short amount of time.

We've based this on the 2008 samples. The reductions have kept going in that direction, and we don't have the data to date, so is it possible that we're actually down to the 1% today? Is that the point you were trying to make?