Health Committee on March 16th, 2010

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Minister, in your opening statement, you commended yourself on having passed, in 2009, legislation to remove flavouring from tobacco that would entice young people to smoke. We had supported this decision because we were favourable to it. Yet, you must know that, today, the American Congress is asking some serious questions as to the legality of this bill.

What measures is your government taking to ensure that this legislation, in other words Bill C-32, will be enforceable and binding?

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

As the member is well aware, cracking down on tobacco marketing aimed at youth has been one of our priorities and is an important public health measure that will help us reduce the likelihood of young people taking up smoking. We all know the industry needs new clients and tends to target the younger, vulnerable population of this country.

In terms of Canada's trade obligations, those were taken into account during the development of this legislation. The government is very serious about Canada's trade obligations and, for that reason, scrutinizes every bill it introduces for consistency with those obligations. The WTO and the WHO have said that countries have the right to take measures to restrict imports or exports of products when this is necessary to protect human health, and human health has been recognized by the WTO as being important in the highest degree.

The act we had introduced applies to cigarettes like little cigars, or the blunt wraps manufactured or sold in Canada, regardless of their origin. New sections 5.1 and 5.2 of the act do not apply to cigarettes, little cigars, and blunt wraps manufactured in Canada solely for the export market.

So concerning the manufacture and sale of American-style blended cigarettes, it's also important to note that the new legislation does not ban any tobacco products or any type of tobacco leaves used in their manufacture.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you, Minister.

Now we'll go to Ms. Wasylycia-Leis.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Thank you, Minister, and members of your department and the Public Health Agency. I appreciate your being here.

I want to start with the reference in your speech pertaining to the HIV vaccine facility initiative. You have indicated there, as you did publicly, that in fact the proposal by your government, announced with some fanfare in 2007, abruptly came to an end this February with the cancellation of the bids and the cancellation of the program.

I would like to know very directly from you, and very specifically, at any time was a recommendation in the works pertaining to one of the four bids?

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

No.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Could I ask one more time? Was there any recommendation at any point coming forward from anyone within your department or the Public Health Agency of Canada?

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

The answer to that is no.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Could I ask the head of the Public Health Agency of Canada? At any time, was there a recommendation moving forward?

[Dr. David Butler-Jones, Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada]

In the review of all the proposals, none of the proposals met the objectives, so there was no successful bid from the four that did bid. At the same time, there was a separate process involving the work of the Gates Foundation in reviewing international capacity.

Once it was clear that none of them were successful, we found out that in fact additional capacity has developed in the last few years that made this unnecessary. We will be working with the Gates Foundation in terms of where best to invest those resources.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

So is it fair to say, based on that answer, that in fact the independent review committee that looked at the four bids actually did make a recommendation, and move it forward to the departmental review committee in Ottawa, but that it was then quashed at the departmental level or at the cabinet level?

[Dr. David Butler-Jones]

The whole process involved peer review as well as review within the agency in terms of meeting the criteria. The peer review was not in a position to assess all the factors in terms of scientific merit as opposed to sustainability and other factors that were necessary to have a successful bid. None of the applicants met all of the criteria.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

What does it mean, then, when two officials from the Public Health Agency, Dr. Engelhardt and Steven Sternthal, say there was no recommendation made in the traditional sense? Could I get a clarification on what that might mean?

[Dr. David Butler-Jones]

Yes. Obviously, within the bids themselves, though none of them crossed the line in terms of being successful and having met all the measures, some were better than others. So if, for example, in the future there was a new call for proposals it's likely that some of them would have been more successful than others, but again, since that was not necessary, given that the capacity is now out there, there was no point in going to a new bid.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Could you give us the names of the individuals or the departments involved in reviewing the independent review committee's judgment of the four bids and who in the end made the final decision not to proceed?

[Dr. David Butler-Jones]

Again, it's a scientific review process externally and then a process internally, but whatever we can share I'd be happy to do so.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

I guess I'm asking--

[Dr. David Butler-Jones]

At the end of the day, it was not a political decision; it was a decision in the agency as it relates to the merits of it. Most of us were arm's length to that. I accepted the official recommendation.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

On what basis were the merits of the proposals judged? Was there a relationship between the final decision and this study that was done at the very last minute, in July of 2009, pertaining to vaccine production capacity globally?

[Dr. David Butler-Jones]

The two processes were separate, as it turns out. At the same time that it was recognized that none of the proposals met the full criteria...that this other study by Gates. So that came to our attention. The decision then was whether to proceed with additional work, and given the capacity out there, there was no need to proceed for new proposals or requests or modified requests.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Madam Minister, you put all your eggs in the basket of this study in the House and suggested that the project was ground to a halt because of this last-minute study in July 2009, and suggested in fact that the Gates Foundation was to blame, in effect, for this change of heart, even though it was only a tiny funder in the whole scheme of things.

Could you explain to us why you would put any weight on a study that was done in July of 2009, two years after your government announced its intentions, and a study indicating something that we knew all along, which is that there is capacity in the world, with vaccine production and drug production companies, to produce a vaccine...how you could consider this study to be of due diligence?

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

As the member is well aware, a study was commissioned by the Gates Foundation that concluded there was sufficient current vaccine capacity in North America and Europe and there was no longer a need for a facility in Canada. That study itself is one piece of the work that we're undertaking. The Government of Canada remains committed to fighting HIV and AIDS, and we will be moving forward with the Gates Foundation to identify areas we'll work together on.

It's also about ensuring that we are spending Canadian taxpayers' money in the right areas. If there is no need for a facility in Canada, then we have to make decisions to ensure we are spending Canadian taxpayers' money wisely. At the same time it's a joint partnership with Gates Foundation, and we'll continue to collaborate with the organization in terms of next steps and how we can use the investments made by the Gates Foundation and the Government of Canada to address HIV in Canada.

Thank you.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Could you table for us how the $139 million, which is the sum total for this vaccine initiative, is going to be spent now that you've cancelled the vaccine production facility? It probably cost this country a couple of million dollars to develop these proposals. How will that $139 million be spent?

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

We are in the process of assessing the options with the Gates Foundation. As soon as that is available, I would be happy to table that information. At the same time I've also offered to members in the House of Commons to make available the study that was conducted by the Gates Foundation as it relates to the decision around the manufacturing capacity. That information is available, and if requested, I'll make it available.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Thank you. We'd appreciate that. Actually, it's sort of ironic; three years ago we were sitting here, and the minister for health at the time was telling us how we had to deal with cutbacks to community prevention programs in the area of HIV and AIDS so that we could take that money and put it towards this production facility. And now we're told the production facility is not on, and we're not sure where that money's going to go. So I think Canadians are owed an explanation. We're all owed an explanation.

Let me ask a question on tuberculosis, because in fact, as you know, Madam Minister, I tried to get an emergency debate in the House. It is, as you know, the forgotten disease, and in your department it is also forgotten.

My colleague Carolyn Bennett already mentioned to you that your strategy for TB doesn't exist, so I don't know how you can table it. This is it. You go to your website, and it says “Draft”. There is no.... It says it's under construction.

So in fact we have a crisis in our first nations communities--

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

You time is almost up, Ms. Wasylycia-Leis. Do you want an answer to this question?