Evidence of meeting #40 for Health in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was million.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
Mr. Carrie, our time is up.
As much as this has been so much fun, we'll have to suspend for two minutes.
I want to thank the witnesses for coming and giving us all this insightful information. It's very much appreciated.
I will suspend for two minutes and then we will go into our business part.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
Let's get started, if we could, so we get this very important business completed.
We're starting with Mr. Dosanjh's notice of motion.
Mr. Dosanjh, would you please read it into the record?
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
No, I don't necessarily want the privilege of having to read it.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I notice that my colleague mentions all the briefing notes and research documents that have been written by Health Canada about the implementation of new tobacco health warnings. This could be quite voluminous, and there may be issues regarding cabinet confidence.
We do have a system, access to information, and I would think it might be a better option for the member to consider putting this through ATIP, as they would take the cabinet confidence issue into account. So I'd like to make that recommendation on that second point.
Does anybody else want to discuss that point? There are a few things I'd like to talk about.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON
Okay, because we do have that system in place. The next point says:
A detailed list of names of all the lobbyists and a description of all the lobbying that has taken place related to the implementation of new tobacco warnings, and copies of all the materials provided to the government by these lobbyists;
We put something in called the Federal Accountability Act. I think everybody remembers that was the first big piece of legislation we put in, and he could contact the Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying on that request.
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
I think you're wasting your time. They know what's available and what's not available. They know how to deal with the cabinet confidences when they disclose documents.
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
When the officials produce documents, they will take all those things into account. I want to know what lobbyists contacted them. There may be more lobbyists contacting them than the ones who are reflected in the lobby register. I'm sorry.
From my perspective, I have asked for the widest possible information. That's what committees are for, for doing this kind of work. Thank you for letting me know I can go the ATIP route. Yes, I could have done that, but I choose to do it here because the committee's going to be discussing this issue on the seventh.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON
Again, I would just point out that my colleague did request information going all the way back to 2004. The Federal Accountability Act and the details and the checks and balances we put in didn't come into effect until 2006, I think, or later.
You were the Minister of Health back in 2004. Maybe the quickest thing to do, if you really want that information, is to go into your own schedule. For the time between 2004 and 2006, when we didn't have the Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying or the ability to look at these different things, I don't even know if that information would be available through ATIP and all these other offices. But you might have that yourself, and that would be the quickest way to get that to us for the time from 2004 to 2006.
Madam Chair, with the committee there are ways of getting this through. And he's asked to have it within seven days. This request really resembles an order paper question, and we know that other colleagues around the table have asked for these before. There are reasons we allow 45 days for responses to order paper questions. Because of the volume of what he's asking for here, I would suggest as well that seven working days is unreasonable. For the part between 2004 and 2006, he might be able to pull that out of his old schedule. But he's asking for a lot of information here.
Even in the next question--“All the written and verbal input”--he's talking about verbal input--“the government has received related to the implementation of new tobacco warning labels” as the next point. How does one even provide verbal input in a written form? If somebody is just talking back and forth, how do you provide that in a written form?
And then it indicates any and all deliberations that the government has undertaken regarding the implementation of new tobacco warnings. Again, this is more cabinet confidence. And if you put it through ATIP, they will take all of this into account.
I think, Madam Chair, there is a reason you can put this as an order paper question and give a reasonable amount of time to get the responses to this. This is incredibly unusual.
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
First of all, may I ask whether we're in camera or out? We're not in camera?
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
We're public. Good. Thank you.
No, I'm not going to respond to any of the concerns my friend raises. He is simply making excuses for non-production or non-disclosure of documents. Officials are very adept at providing documents when and if they have to. Committees have a right. Committees are masters of their own procedure and what they do. Committees can decide whether they give seven days or eight days. I gave seven days because there is a hearing coming up on December 7 with respect to these matters, and if the officials can't provide the documents they'll come back to the committee and give us reasons why they can't provide those documents.
So I'm not going to argue with you, sir, on all of the issues you raise. Those issues can be dealt with by the officials when they're looking into these things. This is what I want disclosed.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
Monsieur Dosanjh, may I just ask you a question? I don't usually intercede, but you're talking about wanting all this information from 2004 when you were in government to right now, in seven working days. And you want verbal input; you want lobbyists, and details of all the names of all the lobbyists, and all lobbying that's taken place since January 1, 2004. You want how much money has been spent on research, group testing, consultations design. Even Santa's helpers can't work that fast, Mr. Dosanjh.
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
I'm also an INTJ realist: one and one equals two. With all due respect, would you please reconsider? I know you need all this information. Everyone wants to give you that information, but seven working days really is unrealistic.
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
How many working days is it between now and the evening of December 6? You can take that many, up until December 6. It doesn't matter to me.