Evidence of meeting #18 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was confidence.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Rob Nicholson  Leader of the Government in the House of Commons
Jean-Pierre Kingsley  Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

12:35 p.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

Jean-Pierre Kingsley

Well, if most is 50% plus one, the answer is yes. We do know that it's several hundred thousand--I think it's around 300,000--youth we don't have because of that missing piece of information. There are also other Canadians, by the way, who fit in that category, but it's youth who are particularly affected. I find this particularly troublesome because they are the ones who have to get into the habit of voting, and we should do everything possible to enable them to vote at the first opportunity they are eligible to vote.

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON

As for the other question, you mentioned the preferability of moving to one day rather than the other.

12:35 p.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

Jean-Pierre Kingsley

In terms of management, if you're not able to hold the election on the Monday and you're geared for that, I find it preferable to do it on the Tuesday, which is what the law would say now. And if that Tuesday, for some reason, were problematic, in light of the other criteria involved, I'd prefer to flip it over to the Wednesday so that we're only adding two days to the electoral process instead of adding one week.

As people who have lived with you through the last election and know what it is to go beyond 36 days and start to hit the higher numbers...if we can restrict it to two additional days, I would find that much better than seven additional days.

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear

Thank you very much.

Monsieur Guimond.

12:35 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I would like to ask you a question, Mr. Kingsley. It's not a trick question, I assure you. I only want to understand how things are done.

When the government leader wants to table a Bill amending the Elections Act, when are you informed? Are there any discussions with you or do you just become aware when the Bill is tabled in the House for first reading?

12:35 p.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

Jean-Pierre Kingsley

From my experience during the 17 years I have held this position, it depends upon the nature of the Bill and its substance. I'm going to answer the question directly...

12:35 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC

How did it go with Bill C-16?

12:35 p.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

Jean-Pierre Kingsley

On this one, I was not consulted at all.

12:35 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC

All right. You know that the Bill provides for holding the next elections on October 19, 2009, and one of the recommendations you made in the report you tabled after the last elections related to section 45 of the Elections Act. You recommended moving the polling date from October 15 to November 15. I suppose you see the problem.

Would you still make the same recommendation today? The committee answered your comments in June 2006. I refer to page 20 of the French version, at paragraph 2.15, where the committee endorses your recommendation. Personally, I would not agree with November 15. I hope that my colleagues understand that there is a problem.

We should not agree with holding elections on November 15 because that would not take account of all the people who change residences during the summer. We should stick with October 15 or even earlier. Am I the only one to see a problem there?

12:40 p.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

Jean-Pierre Kingsley

I believe you are sincere in your understanding of what you have read but I want to ensure the committee that we would obviously include all the changes that we would have received during the election year. We would make even more efforts to ensure that.

The recommendation to hold the elections on November 15, which is aimed at giving you access to electoral lists, is still valid. During the election year, we would send a complete list of electors, including all the changes, on the day set for sending the preliminary list, which is day 31 of the election period, that is to say within one week after the calling of the elections, which would be well before October 15. You would receive the most complete list possible well before October 15.

12:40 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC

Which means what date? If elections are held on October 15, what would Day 31 be? Would it be Day 31 of the campaign?

12:40 p.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

Jean-Pierre Kingsley

Yes. In other words, 5 days after the beginning of the election period we would send you the preliminary list of electors.

12:40 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC

Would this list include all the changes that happened over the summer? In Québec, July 1st is not widely celebrated because it is our national moving day.

12:40 p.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

Jean-Pierre Kingsley

All the people who move...

12:40 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC

Contrary to other provinces, it is a national moving day in Québec. Many people move on July 1st.

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON

It's one of your distinct characteristics.

12:40 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC

Yes. We celebrate changing residences more than the creation of Canada. Would that be taken into account?

12:40 p.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

Jean-Pierre Kingsley

We will take that into account, Mr....

12:40 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC

I want to ask more questions, Mr. Chairman, but not necessarily to Mr. Kingsley. Let's see if we have a good Parliamentary secretary, able to answer our questions, because I want to question him about the report. You may say that this is not directly related to Bill C-16 but, if we have to amend the Act, it's important to know when the changes will happen.

I could come back for the next round.

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear

We certainly will, and we'll follow up on that during clause-by-clause.

Mr. Dewar is next, and I have no other names on my list, so I'm looking for hands.

Mr. Dewar, please.

12:40 p.m.

NDP

Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you too, Mr. Kingsley, for your brief and for resubmitting some of the things you had mentioned in terms of a summary of the benefits of fixed election dates, as I didn't bring my copy.

One of the things that have already been noted is that this would help presumably in terms of the cost of elections. That's not to say that's the only reason to do it, but certainly that would hopefully be one of the outcomes--the cost of elections would actually go down as a result of having fixed election dates. I can assume there are many reasons for that, the least of which are predictability, securing space, etc.

One of the things many of us have been concerned about is the enumeration process. It is costly, but it also is one that has affected those of us—and I don't think it's particular to any political party—who have high turnover in their communities. Certainly my riding of Ottawa Centre has a high turnover. I'm wondering if you could help us a bit on how fixed election dates would change how we do enumeration, presuming that you're going to have time to do it before you normally would--that's the first point--and when that would occur. Could you tell us a bit about how we could improve enumeration? Presumably we'll have some savings and there'll be more money to put into enumeration.

Secondly, you mentioned having some Treasury Board guidelines already there for putting some boundaries around the election itself. Are there other amendments required to make sure we don't get into the election for three or four months prior to the actual election date? If there are things you've thought about that you could lend to us to modify or make amendments to this bill, that would helpful.

12:40 p.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

Jean-Pierre Kingsley

Mr. Chairman, with respect to the national register of electors, I've alluded in my introductory remarks to the fact that a fixed election date would allow Elections Canada to open the offices of returning officers earlier, something like a month before, to do targeted updates; that is to say, an equivalent of what is done at the start of the electoral period, which is targeted revision. It would be possible to manage it, in my view, more professionally and do it with MPs and known candidates and the representatives of parties if they don't have known candidates. To flip that over into the election and knowing when that date is would allow that to happen on a regular basis.

It's simply not possible to do it under the present system, and that is one of the advantages. There may be something that has percolated as an issue that needs to be settled, and when you know when the event is going to take place in terms of the register, you can tackle that in a particular way to solve it, rather than hesitate about doing it because you know you're not going to be able to finish it if the election is called that week rather than this week. It's somewhat nebulous as an answer, but I think people can appreciate what I'm trying to say.

With respect to other amendments, I have given you our best thinking about what would need to be amended. There only two things. One of them is the Treasury Board directive on advertising by the government--four weeks before--and possibly political parties. This means, don't touch third parties; don't touch candidates and what they can do before the election; don't touch anything except the two things I've suggested. In my view, in light of the Constitution, I don't think anything else would be warranted with freedom of speech, freedom of association, and all those other things. I don't think at this stage I have any indication that anything else would need to be touched in terms of the advertising regime or the financing scheme for the election.

12:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear

Thank you very much.

We're going to go to round two. If we can possibly keep this one to three minutes this time, that would give everybody an opportunity.

Monsieur Proulx.

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Kingsley, you talked about the Treasury Board guidelines applying to government and, possibly, to political parties. I would like you to deal with the issue as far as individual candidates are concerned.

How could we make sure that no advertising would start six months before the beginning of the campaign and how could we make sure that any advertising expenditures made six month before the election would be considered as election expenses? I know that there are provisions in the Act but I want you to remind us what they are.

12:45 p.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

Jean-Pierre Kingsley

Mr. Chairman, I don't see what benefits the candidates could have in starting their advertising six months in advance. If some candidates wanted to do that and want to go door to door, I believe that it could only be beneficial to our democracy. I don't see why you would want to prevent this type of activity.

As far as advertising is concerned--and this is my personal opinion--I don't think that starting your advertising six months in advance would be as productive as starting during the campaign. I have absolutely no doubt about this. Anybody who buys advertising does so to have an immediate impact on people, the same day or the next day. Some may want to buy advertising six months in advance but I sincerely believe they would be taking a huge risk.