Evidence of meeting #34 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was person.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Jay Hill Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC
Well, thank you. I mean, usually that's the process, unless there's something new, Mr. Chairman, that I'm not aware of.
Thank you for appearing today.
I think it was in response to a question posed by Mr. Owen at the outset today that you mentioned something about how the entire computer system is going to have to be revamped or overhauled or whatever by, I think you said, July of next year--2007. Is that correct?
11:55 a.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Yes. Would you like me to elaborate, sir?
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Jay Hill Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC
If the answer is yes, that's the question I'm asking.
11:55 a.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
The equipment we have in the field is what I'm talking about. There are over 3,000 computers in the field. The supplier contract with IBM Canada is coming to an end. They keep the equipment up to date. This equipment is now finished. Its usefulness has come to an end. They're no longer able to sustain it. As you know, they no longer manufacture what they manufactured seven or eight years ago.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Jay Hill Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC
So are you talking mostly hardware, then, that has to be replaced, or software?
11:55 a.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
It's software as well. We're going to an Internet-based approach, as opposed to the system we have now.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Jay Hill Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC
With this antiquated equipment--I'm assuming it's antiquated, and you're suggesting that by your comments--what happens if there's an election before July and you're in the process of the changeover?
11:55 a.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
The contract with IBM is clear; we check this regularly with IBM. They will keep alive what we have now until that date so there's a seamless switchover.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Jay Hill Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC
So with the problems that many of us have identified, for example, with the lists, what sorts of assurances can you give us on the updates that have been identified and problems that have been identified? Obviously the old data is in the old software. You're going to a new system. You say you have some guarantee from IBM that it's going to be a seamless transition. With computers, I'm often reminded of the old adage, “garbage in, garbage out”.
Of course one of the problems we're trying to address is the inadequacies of the existing list. That's why you hear comments again and again when you appear before us about door-to-door enumeration perhaps, or going back to some targeted enumeration for areas of high transition and that type of thing. Communities such as the community I'm from, Fort St. John, have seen a dramatic increase in growth over the last while. Calgary would be another example, and Fort McMurray, those types of communities. I hasten to think that those lists are already considerably out of date.
What guarantees do you have, first of all, from IBM that they're comfortable there's going to be this transfer of updated data into the new system and that it will be a system that's reliable?
Noon
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
May I ask Mr. Molnar to respond?
December 7th, 2006 / noon
Rennie Molnar Senior Director, Operations, Register and Geography, Elections Canada
Thank you.
We should separate the issues. The equipment we need to replace in the summer is the hardware and software we use in the field during an election.
The data we provide at the start of an election actually comes from headquarters. At the start of the election, we take the list we maintain centrally between elections, and we basically chop it up into 308 pieces and ship it to the individual returning officers.
So these are two separate things.
Noon
Conservative
Jay Hill Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC
I have some real reservations about this seamless transition, as you refer to it, to a new system, because we've seen so many examples, especially in government, of spending millions upon millions of dollars on computer software programs that are a disaster, quite frankly. As a farmer, I'm well aware of the problems inherent in the CAIS program. That has become notorious for the inadequacies of that program.
Noon
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
We've developed our systems through thorough testing. The Auditor General has verified this and she produced a report in November 2005. We have not had failures in our systems development on the register or on the field systems, and we intend to maintain that.
Noon
Conservative
Jay Hill Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC
So if there's an election, God forbid, in April or something of this year, and we've still got this old equipment, you're confident this old equipment is going to be able to be fired up in 308 ridings, and it will do a good job?
Noon
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Yes, I am, because the system has proven itself. IBM is responsible for maintaining the equipment, and they do it. They've told us this is the end, and that's what we're respecting. That has been part of our plan for some time.
Noon
Conservative
Jay Hill Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC
I'd just say that if you're that confident it can work flawlessly in a spring election, then why are we replacing it? But I'll just let that go.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Noon
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear
Okay.
Madame Picard? Everybody's okay? All right, then we will move to Mr. Dewar.
Noon
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
To come back to enumeration, I like the idea of trying to cross-pollinate and coordinate with other agencies, so I look forward to the idea of the census.
In terms of enumeration, you were saying one of the challenges was vouching for someone who might not be present--one is at the door and the other person's not present. What I'm hearing you say is if we're going to have more take on door-to-door enumeration, we should address that issue, and one way of doing that is to have a process whereby one could vouch for someone else who isn't present. Is that what I hear you saying?
Noon
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
What I'm recommending is what I recommended before—which was turned down—which is go back to when we did door-to-door by taking the word of the person who's answering the door and saying their spouse is also a Canadian and she or he is also 18 or over and his or her name is such-and-such and the person is registered. That's what I'm saying we should go back to.
12:05 p.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
The committee might consider having a statutory declaration of the person vouching for that person actually signing off, because a person's signature is worth something.
12:05 p.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
That is exactly what we recommended as well—
12:05 p.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
—that the person would attest in writing to the names being added to the list, attest they are Canadian and they are the person being mentioned and this is their birthdate.