Procedure and House Affairs Committee on May 31st, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Let me just interrupt. We're well over time on this, but I wouldn't mind a short answer, if we could have one. Then we'll move to the next questioner.

Thank you.

[Marc Mayrand]

We intend to make a complete study of the bill. Needless to say, we will be pleased to share the results of our study with the committee.

Regarding access to the political arena, there is an issue. This is why, after the initial recommendation, we suggested that exemptions could be in order in certain cases.

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I was not a member of this committee in January 2007.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

I'm sorry.

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

I just want to ask you something.

There is a great deal of reference to Mr. Kingsley's documents and recommendations. I was not here in January 2007, I was not a member of the committee. I even asked Parliament Library employees to get the recommendations. They did not find them.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

I will get that for you. We will send it out to you right away.

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Thank you. I'm sorry.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

That's not a problem.

Mr. Preston, please. You have seven minutes.

[Joe Preston, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Thank you to Madame Robillard for thinking of that, too, because it is something we're dealing with. We need to have it.

And thank you for suggesting that you'll get to us with the rest of your research.

When the minister was here just before you, he mentioned that there's a six-month coming-into-force clause in this bill and asked us to ask you whether you thought that would be onerous or how hard it would be to bring this bill into law. I know this may be part of your research piece, so I may allow you to leave it until then.

[Marc Mayrand]

We haven't fully completed the impact analysis, but one thing, of course, is that we will have to design new forms and put them in the system, and that takes a fair amount of time. Just as significant, I think the whole issue of awareness, of education around these substantive changes, will take time.

Our goal is always to be ready as early as possible. Six months? At this point, I can't commit to that.

[Joe Preston, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Okay, and I'll allow you to have that come back to us too.

You've mentioned a couple of times, and it came out in Madame Robillard's question, having an exception. Are you suggesting that we have one set of rules for contributions and another set for limits, so that loan guarantees could be of a higher amount? Is that what you're suggesting, that I could contribute to a candidate in a greater way through leveraging or through lending than I can through cash contributions?

[Marc Mayrand]

Possibly consideration could be given to allowing candidates to have loans from individuals, or be able to lend themselves—use their personal resources—up to a certain amount to run a campaign.

[Joe Preston, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

And yet I see the purpose of this to be the exact opposite, to level the playing field as to what the contribution could be. Truly, we don't want another way around the $1,100 contribution.

[Marc Mayrand]

I understand, and I'm offering this aspect as a matter of consideration, given that the regime, when you look at it overall, may be more difficult to access for very small parties or independent candidates who do not have the support.

[Joe Preston, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

It's my opinion that leveling the field may actually make it easier, but I'll certainly have that....

I'll transfer now to Mr. Reid. He has some other concerns.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Thank you.

Welcome to our committee.

You've raised a matter regarding publicity that is of concern to me as well. We're looking at a series of new rules regarding financing of elections and of political parties in Canada, some of which, already in place as a result of Bill C-2, will be in effect for the next election. I wonder if we could ask you to undertake at the time of the next election some form of publicity so that people will be aware of what the rules are, both with regard to what they can receive and also, more broadly and generally, what they can donate, in order to ensure that there is as widespread compliance with the changed circumstances as possible. That's a matter of grave concern I think to all of us here.

[Marc Mayrand]

Absolutely. There are several changes, and significant changes.

We have done some awareness education with Bill C-2, the Accountability Act, and we will certainly have to make a similar and maybe stronger effort with regard to this bill. This bill also affects in some respects financial institutions, so they have to be fully aware of the requirements of the act and the possible impacts and consequences of the act. We certainly will engage with them in due course to make sure this is well understood across the industry.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

The purpose of this bill, of course, is to address the issues that were raised by your predecessor in his January 2007 report, in which he said, inter alia:

The loans granted by lenders—who are not in the business of lending, who lend money at non-commercial rates, with terms that are not available to others, or in cases where there is little prospect of reimbursement—may be perceived as a means to influence the political entity to which the funds are provided.

Then we saw a very substantial version of this for a number of the leadership candidates for the Liberal leadership, where the perception could exist.... I'm not suggesting that anything untoward was going on, but it does raise the question of how you propose to administer these.

Are you at this point considering allowing anybody not to engage in a full repayment of those loans, or are you expecting a full repayment at this point?

[Marc Mayrand]

I hope I understand your question correctly, but I must say I haven't received the returns yet. Until we have received those returns and see what exactly is happening and the status of the repayment.... We will have to address that as we get that information.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Thank you.

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

That's a political question.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

As opposed to the non-political questions of Madame Robillard.

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Nice try.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Order.

Monsieur Guimond.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

Thank you Mr. Chairman, I would like to make three comments.

First of all, I was surprised when you candidly admitted earlier that no one had asked for advice from either you or your staff on the drafting of the bill. In my view, that must not occur very often. And yet, I think that that is normal procedure.

My two other comments do not deal with Bill C-54. If I were chairman, I would not accept them. The interpreters will need some time to catch up to me.

First, the Advisory Committee of parties has not met since last October. In the letter you sent me, you promised that the committee would meet by the end of June. We hope that you made that promise with your hand on your heart, and that there will be a meeting.

Second, with regard to the list of pieces of identification presented in polling stations, we will study it in committee. Some people showed up with a self-addressed copy of Chatelaine magazine. A Hunting and Fishing magazine or membership card in a fishing club is not sufficient identification. We should stick to more substantial proof of ID. The grocery list you sent us is not very serious.

My two last comments were not relevant to the matter at hand, Mr. Chairman.