Evidence of meeting #58 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was loan.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:45 a.m.
Executive Director, Equal Voice
Child care can be expensive. I pay $1,700 a month for child care, so it can be very expensive.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON
Yes, that's right. That's a good example. Out of $5,000, that's 34%. Yes.
11:50 a.m.
National Chair, Equal Voice
Thank you very much for that suggestion. We welcome suggestions from everybody around the table as we go back to our board to formulate more specific policy.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear
You have two minutes left, but I wonder if we could talk about Bill C-54 at some point.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON
I think these are good ideas, but I wonder if they are related to this piece of legislation. Our witnesses said earlier that they'd like to see these changes made before this bill is adopted. It seems to me these are good changes that would equalize the system, but they are outside the scope of the bill that is meant to deal with the problem that unsecured loans form a way around the spending limit law.
I don't want to put those words in your mouth, but do you agree with me or accept that what I'm saying is legitimate?
11:50 a.m.
National Chair, Equal Voice
As far as the 1990 commission and the particulars of the bill we're talking about here today, the royal commission and what's presented here on the paper with the eight points do not specifically address the loan component of the law.
It's a pleasure to appear before you today to present the main point from Equal Voice that financial barriers, whether they have to do with loans or spending limits, are one of the greatest barriers to women entering political life. I strongly suggest that committee members keep that at the front of their minds as they proceed by having these discussions.
I'm a Newfoundlander, so I'm trying to speak rather quickly, but I said a few moments ago about loans that one really needs to hear from the banks. We are not banking experts. Perhaps on occasion I like to think of myself as one, but I'm not. Equal Voice has said what we are allowed to say for now within the purview of our board's mandate. But you will hear from us again.
Thank you.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
June 14th, 2007 / 11:50 a.m.
Bloc
Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for agreeing to appear before the committee on such short notice.
Before I begin, I have a question for you, Mr. Chairman. Was the Conservative Party invited to testify before the committee?
11:50 a.m.
Bloc
Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC
So it would appear that the members did not accept the invitation.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear
We couldn't get them here. I believe they didn't feel they needed to appear.
Was it a rejection, or was it that we couldn't get hold of them?
They declined.
11:50 a.m.
Bloc
Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC
They declined. I won't rend my shirt, because it's new, but it is a bit of a shame.
My question is to the representatives of the other political parties. Mr. Gardner explained the rationale behind the Bloc amendment, which will probably be debated on Monday, when we move to the clause-by-clause study. I have already consulted my colleagues from the other parties here at committee, but I would like you to tell us about the amendment to ensure that the parties will not be liable for the debt.
I am referring to proposed subsection 405.7(5), which is on page 5 of the bill. According to that provision, if, after a nomination meeting, a relatively unknown candidate incurs a debt, the party will become liable, as if it had guaranteed the loan. Would you agree that this subsection should be deleted?
11:50 a.m.
National Director, Liberal Party of Canada
From our perspective, the point is valid. I think Mr. Siegel had a couple of details he'd like to correct, but it's a very reasonable concern. I haven't read the Bloc amendment, so I don't know if it goes exactly to the point we would support, but I think the idea is valid.
Jack has a couple of suggestions.
11:55 a.m.
Legal Counsel, Liberal Party of Canada
I think it's certainly an idea that warrants a fair bit of consideration, and I see arguments two ways. Since you're obviously well acquainted with the arguments for doing away with it, I'm going to play devil's advocate here a little, because I'm really of two views on this. We do have a provision like this under Ontario provincial law, and have had for the past 20 years, that the riding association assume the debt of the campaign. One thing that permits is for the campaign to close its books fully and absolutely and transfer its assets or liabilities to the riding association. If I put on a different hat for a moment, I'll tell you why I think that's a good thing in some cases.
I'm also Ontario campaign co-chair for our party in the next election, and I'm involved in recruiting candidates and individuals who have nice lives and have great skills that we'd like to turn towards the public good and Parliament. They sometimes say, “But if I do this, what kind of financial risk am I taking”? And you're asking individuals—and some of you have gone through this, no doubt—to assume the potential of a long-term debt. If things don't go well—and sometimes you don't see it coming, but sometimes you do—and all of a sudden you didn't do nearly as well as you thought, either with fundraising or electorally, and therefore with your rebate, then there's a debt. If the riding association is going to endorse a candidate, which is the process we engage in, then maybe at the end of the day it's not inappropriate for the riding association to absorb that liability.
On the other hand, if you have a renegade candidate, it means you have a lot of other problems on your hands too.
11:55 a.m.
Eric Hébert-Daly
If I may, Mr. Siegel, I think that's a good point, and I think both of those things are valid. I wonder if the solution isn't that you be permitted to transfer, assuming that there's an agreement to transfer. I think that the danger is that we suddenly, as parties, develop all these debts we didn't expect. I think that if there were some mechanism by which the party could agree to that debt, that would probably bridge the gap of the two solitudes, if you will.
11:55 a.m.
Legal Counsel, Liberal Party of Canada
We can go back and forth. That's okay. My answer to that would be that we can do that already. All the riding association does is transfer money to the campaign to pay off its debts and borrow money to cover itself. So you can actually do that today if the riding association is ready, willing, and able to do so. I know—I've done it.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear
Monsieur Guimond, are you happy with the decision? Do you have a comment?
11:55 a.m.
Bloc
Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC
Is that all you have to say, Mr. Hébert-Daly?
11:55 a.m.
Bloc
Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC
With respect to Ms. Dion, we would all like to have a 52% female representation in the House of Commons, since women make up 52% of the country's population. I think that is only logical.
I am in charge of my party's nominating committee for the next election. This responsibility was given to me by my leader. It involves a fair number of meetings and discussions to try to interest more women in running for office.
I have two questions for you. First, are you saying that money is the only thing that is preventing women from entering politics? I know that Bill C-54 is intended to eliminate financial obstacles. Would more women run for political office if these obstacles were eliminated?
Second, I had a look at the membership of your advisory board. Apart from Senator Lucie Pépin, the former President of the Advisory Council on the Status of Women, who is very credible, do you have any statistics to show how many women are involved in politics at the individual provincial level, or do you only have federal statistics?
11:55 a.m.
National Chair, Equal Voice
Thank you very much for both of your questions.
To clarify the first question, which was about the financing and the money issue being the only barrier for women in politics, it's one of many barriers.
The academic data—I'll just make reference to Canadian data—specify the nomination and the financial process as the top two barriers for women in politics. I believe there are many issues that need to be addressed, and I don't think there is necessarily one issue that's going to solve this for getting more women in politics. A lot of things have to happen. Improvements have to be made on a lot of different issues to really make the big difference you're looking for.
On the second question that you had, with regard to the provincial numbers of women in politics, yes, we do have those numbers on our website. When we first started Equal Voice we were really looking at the federal numbers. It's really a matter of capacity, and over the last few months we've had people coming to us with the expectation that we are to provide provincially for the data, and now there's the expectation of municipal as well, considering that there have been some changes at the municipal level.
We're going to do and grow as much as we can, but we understand that the Canadian public is starting to look toward Equal Voice as a really good reference point for getting the data on women in politics. The provincial data is there.
Noon
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear
Thank you.
Was there an undertaking to get information for you, Monsieur Guimond, or are you satisfied?