Evidence of meeting #44 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was believe.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:30 a.m.
As an Individual
Yes, the pre-budget consultations were completely public. We would have discussed who had come and who had gone, yes.
11:30 a.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
So your circle of friends would have known—I just want to be clear—that in the course of talking you'd have said you were on this committee and that would have gotten talked about a bit, along with some of the issues at hand. This was public information.
11:30 a.m.
As an Individual
I don't recall exactly, but I'm sure it could have come up in conversations.
11:30 a.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
The reason I'm asking you is that Ms. Hamilton, under oath, said that she didn't know you were working on the pre-budget report and that this all came out of the blue. Yet, there's testimony, and you've just reaffirmed, that among your casual group of acquaintances it would come up in discussion. There seems to be a bit of a discrepancy.
11:30 a.m.
As an Individual
With the utmost respect, I don't believe there is a discrepancy. My casual group of friends is larger than just Ms. Hamilton. I'm referring to my friends at large. I cannot remember any instance when we discussed the pre-budget consultation directly between just Ms. Hamilton and I. I don't remember the context of the conversation I had with her when I went to lunch at the Rideau Club with her. I do not recall.
11:30 a.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
You had phone calls with Ms. Hamilton on the Thursday, correct?
11:30 a.m.
As an Individual
I believe that my e-mail to her was, “What number are you at right now?” And she replied with a phone number. I don't recall if I ever called her or what I called her about.
11:30 a.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Okay. You exchanged e-mails, too. But your testimony and that of Ms. Hamilton is that it was totally unrelated.
11:30 a.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I apologize. I have an opening statement from Ms. Hamilton, and she gave a chronology of her actions. She says:
At 12:37 p.m., I sent a quick reply without reading the e-mail's contents. Two hours later [Mr. Ullyatt] and I exchanged e-mails on a personal matter that had nothing to do with the report. At 3:20 p.m. in the afternoon, [Mr. Ullyatt] called me and we had a brief [conversation on the phone] on a matter completely unrelated to the report.
Is that your recollection too?
11:30 a.m.
As an Individual
As I said, I don't remember calling her, but I trust Ms. Hamilton's recollection better than mine, because I simply don't have one at this point.
I can see from the e-mail chain that it would make sense that I called her at 3:20, considering that I asked for her phone number at 3:17, but I do not recall what the conversation was about.
11:30 a.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I'm with Mr. Lukiwski. This is only my second meeting on this particular file, Chair, so I don't pretend to be as on top of it as every member of this committee who's been here all the way through. But I remember that by the time we got into the second round with Ms. Hamilton, there was really nowhere to go. We did not accept, I don't think.... Well, I'll speak for myself. I did not accept everything I heard at face value. I had some real concerns. But I also realized that without being in a courtroom with the ability to cross-examine and have protection for the witnesses and all the things in our justice system, we weren't going to get any further.
In terms of the questions I have today, I don't think I'm going to get any further. Mr. Ullyatt has stated his position on all these things, and really, to go any further and drill down, I think, would put us in a situation where rather than it just being a hearing, it becomes a bit of an inquest. We do not have the judicial protections here to do that. So I have to tell you that I think we're going in circles again. Unless there's new information, I don't see what more is going to come. With that, I'm done.
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
Thank you, Mr. Christopherson.
I'm beginning to think the same way as you, but we'll go one more round of five-minute questions and see what else there is. If we finish off, we finish off.
Mr. Proulx, you are up for five.
11:30 a.m.
Liberal
Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Good morning, Mr. Ullyatt.
Mr. Ullyatt, I know this is a difficult time for you. I appreciate that. You've already apologized. I respect you for that. I've looked at your CV. You've done quite a bit of community work. You've been involved in the Ottawa community, and I commend you for that.
I want you to understand, sir, that we are not here, or I am not here, to hit you. I just want to get some clarifications. There are some questions that pop up, and I'd like you to help me with that. Okay?
11:30 a.m.
As an Individual
I do believe that I removed the vice-president of the Young Liberals at the University of Ottawa from my resumé.
11:30 a.m.
Liberal
Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
I would have been even happier to welcome you here this morning.
I'm joking.
You answered Mr. Lukiwski by saying that you've never given any other information to anybody else. Have you ever received information from public servants, or any type of information that could be considered confidential or privileged? Have you ever received such?
11:30 a.m.
As an Individual
That's a very good question. I'd have to rack my brain, but off the top of my head, no, I don't believe I've ever received any information.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
If you could think of instances when you've received that, I'd appreciate it if you gave it to us through the committee clerk. Okay?
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
In response to Madame DeBellefeuille's questions, you started saying that whatever work you did for Mrs. Block, you did at home, out of office hours. What kind of work are you referring to?
11:35 a.m.
As an Individual
I believe there is a certain amount of political work that can happen with any member of Parliament. Of course, election work is something that inherently gets done by a few people, whether they be volunteers or whatnot. So on occasion, from home, I would make phone calls to certain members of her electoral district association or to campaign volunteers. But I would do that on my own time.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Would this be work done through your company? What is it? Artful thinking or....