Procedure and House Affairs Committee on March 16th, 2011

Evidence of meeting #49 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was costs.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Question of Privilege Relating to the Failure of the Government to Fully Provide the Documents as Ordered by the House

Question of Privilege Relating to the Premature Disclosure on November 18, 2010, of the Confidential Draft Report on the Prebudget Consultations of the Standing Committee on Finance by an Employee of the Member for Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar.

Committee Business

MPs speaking

Claude DeBellefeuille

Also speaking

Rob Walsh Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel, House of Commons

Suzanne Legault Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada

Andrea Neill Assistant Commissioner, Complaints Resolution and Compliance, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada

Don Head Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada

Catherine Kane Director General and Senior General Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice

Mel Cappe As an Individual

Alister Smith Associate Secretary, Treasury Board Secretariat

Donna Dériger Acting Senior Director, Financial Management Strategies, Costing and Charging, Financial Management Sector, Office of the Comptroller General, Treasury Board Secretariat

Kevin Page Parliamentary Budget Officer, Library of Parliament

Sahir Khan Assistant Parliamentary Budget Officer, Expenditure and Revenue Analysis, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer, Library of Parliament

Mostafa Askari Assistant Parliamentary Budget Officer, Economic and Fiscal Analysis, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer, Library of Parliament

1:45 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

That's right, the total.

1:45 p.m.

Conservative

Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB

Let me answer now. Let me answer now, Mr. Brison.

1:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

If you're going to ask a question, we're going to want an answer, so let's leave a little gap in-between.

1:45 p.m.

Conservative

Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB

Mr. Brison, you asked what all of the bills cost.

1:45 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

The 18.

1:45 p.m.

Conservative

Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB

I can't give you that answer because not all of the bills are my responsibility. Some of the bills are the Minister of Justice's responsibility. I can go through the bills and point out the bills I'm responsible for and what the costs are. Is that what you want me to do, Mr. Brison?

1:45 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

I want the total figure from both ministers as to what the 18 bills will cost.

1:45 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

The cost for bills that you asked for, per the breakdown here, is approximately $631 million.

1:45 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

So we're being told over $600 billion—

1:45 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

No, no, no.

1:45 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

—or $600 million.

1:45 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

Sorry, $631 million with respect to the bills for which you have asked for the costs. And as I indicated, for many of them there are no federal costs, but where there are costs attributable, in the information you have before you, it totals $631 million.

1:45 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

You have said there are no federal costs. So there are other costs. What are the costs to the provinces?

1:45 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

Again, I'll give you an example. With respect to the bill that was recently passed by Parliament, consecutive parole ineligibility, there are no costs for at least 25 years because for the individuals who would be affected by this, their matter doesn't come up for 25 years. Therefore, it's impossible at this particular time to say—

1:45 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

So you don't have the costs for the provinces?

1:45 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

Again, in the example I've given you, there are no costs to the provinces, in the sense that for somebody who is no longer eligible for parole after committing more than one murder, this won't kick in for 25 years after that individual has been convicted. So you can see why we've indicated that there are no costs at this particular time.

1:45 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

You've indicated that your U.S.-style mega-prison agenda has no costs to the taxpayers in many of these bills. Is that what you're saying?

1:45 p.m.

Conservative

Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB

Since you've raised the issue of prisons, could you identify the mega-style U.S. prison you're referring to, please?

1:45 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Minister Toews, I want you to answer a question about the—

1:45 p.m.

Conservative

Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB

I'm just asking because you're asking a question—

1:45 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Minister Toews, Minister Toews—

1:45 p.m.

Conservative

Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB

—and you're putting false information on the record, Mr. Brison—

1:45 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Minister Toews, Minister Toews—

1:45 p.m.

Conservative

Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB

—and if you're going to make those kinds of statements, Mr. Brison, please put it and I will respond fully.

1:45 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Minister Toews, do you recognize this document?