Procedure and House Affairs Committee on March 30th, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Fine.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

The question is just simply, what is it that someone who presented these names--as you say, obviously it was one of the government members--thought they could contribute to the accuracy of these statements? We're still talking about the issue of privilege, and the issue of privilege based on objective fact and accuracy, to use Mr. Lukiwski's terminology.

If we are truly interested in those things, let's have a debate or a discussion as to what makes these people contributors to an understanding of the facts; I don't even want to say the “truth”.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I think what needs to happen is that we may have a discussion with those people as witnesses to determine what they are offering to the case. I don't think--

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

No, they would only come, Mr. Chairman, if you asked them. They didn't volunteer.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Right.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

So those who volunteered them are the ones who have an intention of debate in their mind. That's why I said, listen, if facts don't matter, then let's simply move on to what the committee was tasked to do, which is to submit a report.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Well, I'm not sure anybody has said that facts don't matter. We have a number of people now on the witness list because this has turned into the testimony and debate at committee rather than the arrangement of a witness list.

We have to vacate this room at 12:50 for the other people to come in. Let's see if we can get quick, short comments. I'll take them all if we can, and we'll let the committee decide at the end of the day.

Mr. Lauzon.

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

At the risk of causing any divisions in the Liberal Party, the official opposition here, I get two messages. I have Mr. Proulx saying that we should have more witnesses, and I have Mr. Volpe I think suggesting--

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

No, I didn't.

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

I thought you wanted to add a witness.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

No, I didn't.

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Okay, I'm sorry.

Well, Mr. Volpe doesn't want any witnesses.

Anyway, the reason we're calling witnesses, as I understand it, is that Mr. Cotler sat here and suggested that some of these statements were inaccurate. In order to determine whether they are inaccurate, we decided collectively, as a committee, that we would call some witnesses to this committee and get some testimony on the veracity of these statements. So I don't see how we can go right to a report if we don't listen to the comments of the witnesses.

In most committees, we usually cooperate, relatively, when it comes to witnesses. Maybe there is somebody who is very controversial, but by and large, if somebody wants to add a witness—and Mr. Godin wants to add a witness—if it makes sense to the committee, I think we should do that. Do we want to solve the problem or do we just want to sweep it under the rug? If we want to solve the problem, let's get it and then we'll have a decision once and for all.

At any rate, I think we're doing this almost at Mr. Cotler's suggestion, actually.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Mr. Lukiwski.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Just quickly, Chair--

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Please.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

--Joe is suggesting here that we vet witnesses. We've never done that before. He's saying we determine whether they're appropriate and that's why they should come. Joe may not want to see some of these witnesses appear, for whatever his reasons, but the witness lists have been submitted.

We have never, at least in my memory, submitted witness lists and denied the Bloc, the NDP, or anybody the right to call the people they want to speak to. So I think we should do as you had suggested and get the witnesses here. If their testimony is not relevant, then you as chair, or others on a point of order, can get them out of here. But I think we have to hear these people.

My real question, though, is that there were apparently four names on the original witness list that don't appear here. I'm still waiting to hear who they are and what the plans are to--

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I'll read those out, if you like.

Mr. Walsh, who appeared here today, was on our witness list; he therefore didn't make it onto the next one.

David Matas, representing B'nai Brith—

[The Clerk]

He's on it, but they asked for representatives of B'nai Brith. He's—

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

So we're working off that.

There's Mohamed Boudjenane, with the Canadian Arab Federation, and Grace-Edward Galabuzi, from...we're not sure where.

[The Clerk]

He's on sabbatical.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

He's on sabbatical, and we're trying to find him.

They're on there.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

I just want clarification that the four witnesses who were on the proposed witness list and who are not on this one are not included because they're unable to make it. Or were they just left out in error?

[The Clerk]

Some of them are unable to make it. Some of them I haven't been able to contact yet.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Okay. So there's the potential to have more witnesses than those we have here?

[The Clerk]

Yes.