Procedure and House Affairs Committee on March 30th, 2010

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Yes. Well, then, obviously we agreed last week what the witnesses could consist of. We looked at it before we came here. We said, “Here's a list”, and it looked good. You've done your job in trying to schedule those witnesses. And now to come in here today and say that we're going to change this all over because Mr. Volpe decided to show up today, I don't think is fair.

In regard to my colleague Mr. Guimond on the malicious intent, if he wants to go down that road then we need to bring somebody in to define what “malicious intent” is. Because, as I said before, there are ten percenters that have come into my riding that I would say then have malicious intent. What other intent would they have?

So, Chair, they're raising a whole pile of more issues. As far as I'm concerned, this has all been solved. They're all moot points.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Monsieur Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I am looking at the list. I know you discussed it last week when I was absent. I think the main witness should be invited and that would be Mr. Vic Toews. He is the one who wrote it; it is his ten percenter.

The name of the main witness was not indicated on the list. I have a document from a member that says that the Liberals participated willingly— We are told that this is accurate information. The main witness I would like to hear from, the only one in fact, would be him. He could then tell us where he got his information. It is his signature. Calling in the entire Jewish community will not change much; they would simply be a throng of witnesses.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I don't disagree. All parties were asked to submit witness lists by a certain time. We've even offered certain extensions after that or given more time. We discussed the witness list last week. I can only do what I'm asked to do. We were asked to go away and try to put it into a schedule.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I agree with you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Now today we're not wanting to schedule...[Inaudible--Editor]...on the quality of the list.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

We heard a witness today. Afterwards we will see the government's stance, given that it says that the facts in the document are accurate. I do not think the main witness has been invited. I would suggest that the individual who signed the document should be invited to come and explain where he got his information. This is important. The other witnesses cannot help us determine whether the facts are accurate; it is up to him to prove it to us.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Mr. Proulx.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to come back to a statement that was made regarding this committee accepting the list of witnesses at the last meeting. I didn't hear it that way. What I recall hearing, and we can check the record, is that we had agreed that you and the clerk should examine the list to find out who might be available and when.

We had also discussed, and I don't want to get into the financial part of this, our hesitation in regard to a certain budget that had been presented.

Regarding Mr. Godin's call for Mr. Toews to be a witness, we all know, or at least I presume, that it was not Mr. Toews who sat down and wrote the ten percenter. But that's why, on the list of witnesses, if you'll recall, I insisted that we call Mr. Garry Keller, the executive director of the Conservative Resource Group, because these ten percenters originate out of the resource group of the Conservative Party. My understanding is that this gentleman should be in a position to tell us where he got the information.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I believe he's on the list.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Okay.

So the main witness that Mr. Godin was talking about, being Mr. Toews, I think it's.... Seeing you don't want to add names to the list of witnesses unless they come from Mr. Reid, then maybe we should call on Mr. Keller.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Excuse me, sir, I have not said that I don't want to add names to the list. I don't know where you took that information from.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

That was the impression I got.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I'd be happy if the committee would like to add names.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I apologize if I'm wrong, Mr. Chair, because you're a fair man.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Mr. Volpe.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Mr. Chairman, I'm now in a position where I've tried to calculate all of the information that's coming from the other side of the table, and indeed from the chair on some occasions. That has to do with whether the witness list is now open or closed--as a start. From Mr. Hoback's comments, my understanding is that the government side is open to opening up the list.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Committees are always masters of their own destinies. If someone wants to move something forward, we work with a fairly good consensus in this committee and we'd be happy to do whatever the will of the committee is.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

So if the list is actually open, then the discussion regarding the merits of the individuals who are placed on the list is therefore still open.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Well, I can't argue against that logic, I guess. We're all still awake, so I guess, you know....

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

I think the third issue is whether the facts are predetermined or not. The facts that we're dealing with were that whoever put the ten percenter together decided were the ultimate facts. Now the committee is being tasked with the enviable task of trying to determine whether facts that were not facts became facts the moment they were put on paper.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Do you think you're giving us your interpretation?

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Well, just a moment, because that's exactly what the committee is going to do. If the committee is going to do that, then it behooves everybody to understand what everybody's intent is.

So I asked--I think rather innocently, perhaps naively--about what some of these people would have to offer. In order for me to understand that best...and I don't want to put a finger on anybody, but it wasn't our group. From what I gather, there wasn't anybody on this side of the table who suggested that these witnesses, from Anne Bayefsky on, have anything to offer to the issue of accuracy and intent by virtue of their absence at a particular conference, which is one of the issues at debate in this ten percenter.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I have others on the list, but I understand, as it has already been shared here, why members were asked to put witnesses forward and why these witnesses were put forward. You can argue your opinion of that, Mr. Volpe, and that's fine, but—

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

I don't have an opinion, I have a question.