Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Nov. 29th, 2011

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I do not, of course.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I want to be very clear that it's about the dynamics of the issue and not you at all. However, I do find it necessary to challenge the chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Okay.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Regardless of what you've said, I think you've hurt his only feeling.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

You're assuming a feeling.

We must rule on whether we're sustaining the chair's ruling. We will vote on that.

[A voice]

A recorded vote?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

A recorded vote, I suppose.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

We're voting as to whether we're in favour of your decision or not?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Yes.

[The Clerk]

That the decision of the chair be sustained.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Those in favour of that motion?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

At the risk of sounding slow, may I ask for one more reading, please?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Certainly. Bill C-20 amends the Constitution Act—that's what it's for—by modifying the rules for calculating the provincial representation in the House. The amendment attempts to exempt the Province of Quebec from these proposed rules.

As the House of Commons Procedure and Practice, second edition, states on page 766:

An amendment to a bill that was referred to a committee after second reading is out of order if it is beyond the scope and principle of the bill.

In the opinion of the chair, the introduction of an exemption for the rules for Quebec is a new concept that is beyond the scope of Bill C-20 and is therefore inadmissible.

Will you be voting in favour of this?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

[Inaudible--Editor]

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

All right.

(Ruling of the chair sustained [See Minutes of Proceedings])

NDP-2 is beyond the scope, so we have no reason to vote on it.

That moves us to Liberal-4.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Liberal-4, Mr. Chair, is like Liberal-3, in that it includes the territories and calculations are based on the total population of Canada. It's much the same as Liberal-3.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Is there further discussion on Liberal-4?

(Amendment negatived)

That moves us to Liberal-5.

I'd ask you to move that.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Yes. Mr. Chair.

We realize that in the readjustment of the seat distribution, when we keep the number at 308 there are provinces that have increased—Ontario, Alberta, and British Columbia, obviously—and others that have not increased proportionally to those provinces. This is a way of providing a gradual change. In other words, we don't lower provinces that have decreased their population proportion disproportionately; we do it gradually. At the same time, we only gradually bring up those provinces that have increased their population. In fact, if you compare our numbers in terms of proportion, they're the same as those being proposed in Bill C-20.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Well, Mr. Garneau, you are probably not going to like that Bill C-20 amends the Constitution Act 1867 to amend the rules for readjusting the number of members in the House of Commons. This amendment proposes to amend these rules so as to keep the number of members as its current level.

As the House of Commons Procedure and Practice, second edition, states on page 766:

An amendment to a bill that was referred to a committee after second reading is out of order if it is beyond the scope and principle of the bill.

In the opinion of the chair, an amendment to maintain the current numbers of the members in the House of Commons is contrary to the principle of Bill C-20 and therefore is inadmissible.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

I'd like to bring up a point of order. Is this a new procedure where the chair is allowed, without any warning whatsoever, to come in and make this kind of a ruling?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I think chairs can make rulings on whether amendments are accessible. That's our job.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

At the very last second?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

It only seems like the last second because I've just done it. If I did it five minutes from now, it would be later. I don't know what you're suggesting. We have to wait for the meeting.