Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Feb. 28th, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

We'll call the meeting to order.

We're in public discussing redistribution in British Columbia.

First of all, I want to orientate you to the screens we're using today, folks. On your right are the ridings that currently exist, the way they are today.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I'm sorry, Chair, I'm distracted by the planet on the left.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

This is the new world where we're going to start new ridings.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

I knew B.C. was different.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

This screen, when it is up and functioning, will be the report from the elections commission and any proposals from our members that the people working the maps from Elections Canada have been given enough detail on to.... If they haven't, they won't be able to do it.

So that's what you will have as we move forward: status quo, proposed, and suggested.

Are there any questions?

Great. We're moving on. Fantastic.

Mr. Lukiwski, did you have something you wanted to start with this morning?

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Yes, thanks very much, Chair. I'll try to be very brief, because I know we have some interveners here.

This is something which I think might be of importance to all colleagues. I know that Nathan will be leaving in a few moments, but I'm sure his colleagues will be able to brief him.

As most of you know, and the chair certainly knows, last night was the deadline for Saskatchewan's submissions for those MPs who wanted to intervene in this process. I put one in, so I will be appearing before the procedure and House affairs committee to give my opinions on the new boundaries and some recommended changes.

Because I'm doing so, I feel it is appropriate that I recuse myself from the committee examination when it comes to the Saskatchewan boundaries, and for pretty obvious reasons. I think it would be a conflict for me on the one hand to be giving testimony saying that I think some changes should be made to the Saskatchewan boundaries, and on the other hand sitting here trying to develop a report based on my own testimony. I just wanted the committee to know that.

With respect to how the committee proceeds when it comes to other provinces, obviously I think that will have to be left up to the individuals. If there are members on this committee who will be making interventions, I think they themselves will have to determine whether or not they want to recuse themselves.

However, I would suggest one thing. Even though I'm recusing myself from the entire discussion on Saskatchewan, it's because Saskatchewan is relatively small population-wise, or I should say it's small in population compared with other provinces. I would think that if there are provinces with a denser population, such as Ontario, for example, and there are MPs on this committee who want to make an intervention, then I don't think—this is my opinion only, but I'll put it on public record—they necessarily have to recuse themselves from the entire provincial discussion, just because of the regional aspects that Ontario would have. Toronto would be a region, GTA would be a region, and so would eastern Ontario, and northern Ontario. So I think if they have been considering it, they might want to consider recusing themselves only for their particular region.

I will be recusing myself from the entire provincial discussion on Saskatchewan. I wanted to put that on public record.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you.

Monsieur Dion, on that topic.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

I fully agree. I think Tom is doing the right thing.

If I had to address a request, I would not participate in any debate on the island of Montreal, but I would have no problem intervening with regard to Gaspésie or other parts of Quebec.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I think that's truly what Tom just said; in Ontario, the same thing.

I think we all should take a look at ourselves. If we are going to be making presentations, we'll need to have some perceived credibility by recusing ourselves for the areas.

Thank you, Tom, for saying that.

Let's get started.

Mr. Wilks and Mr. Atamanenko, it's fantastic to have you both here. I know that many members of Parliament never get a chance to sit at that end of the table. They spend their whole lives sitting along the sides, asking the tough questions. You're ready for that today, I hope.

You each have five minutes to give us a brief summary of what it is you are asking for today. Then the members will ask questions.

We have 45 minutes for the section that has both your ridings in it. You have five minutes to start, and then we'll try to adapt the questions to make the rest of the time fit.

Who would like to go first?

Do we want to go alphabetically, Mr. Atamanenko?

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

Sure, that's okay. I can do that.

Merci beaucoup. Thank you very much for inviting me here. It's a little bit different being at this end of the table. On the one hand it's nice to be with colleagues; on the other hand, you get a little nervous to be among your peers.

It's a pleasure being here with David. We worked together on a number of issues although we may not necessarily agree on some.

I'm trying to argue for the position that the overwhelming majority of people in my riding took at the hearings that I attended. I have a stack of letters of support here, not only from individuals in the community, but also from mayors and MLAs who basically are opposed to the current boundaries. The current riding of British Columbia Southern Interior, if you look at the map, goes from Manning Park through the southern Okanagan, takes in all of Osoyoos, runs along the border, goes to Nelson, Kaslo, and up to north of New Denver and takes in the ski area of Big White. It's large but it's workable and follows the Highway 3 corridor.

The current riding is the result of appearances in 2003, 10 years ago, by, among others, a number of MPs in the area, former MPs such as Jim Abbott, Jim Gouk, who was my MP, Stockwell Day, and the former MP of the time, Tom Siddon, who basically argued against a similar proposal at that time, and as a result we have the current ridings. I thought I'd bring some of the issues that they talked about here.

For example, Mr. Gouk said that it would strain his resources to the breaking point to have a second office in Penticton and try to work between the two offices.

What the commission is proposing is to split the area where I am and to take Nelson and Kaslo and move that area into what is now David's riding, and to bring into my riding Penticton, which basically for our purposes is an urban area which does not have much in common with small rural communities, and to carve off the end, the two smaller communities, and put them into another riding.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, could I just confirm something?

I've managed to get confused once again so forgive me, the riding on our right contains the boundaries as they now are, that is, it's your riding as you now represent it. Is that correct?

[A voice]

That's right, yes.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

It's the brown part over there on the left.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Right. It's just that I've been having trouble finding some of the towns that he's mentioning. Someone has a laser pointer.

Alex, when you mention some of these places that would be moved in and out, could you point to where they are just so we'll have some idea, because I'm getting lost, and I'm not doing justice to your presentation.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

This is the current riding. I believe that's Nelson.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

It is.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

And as we go here, that would be Princeton over here, with Manning Park. What they're proposing to do is to take Penticton which is here, I believe, and move it in here...or it's here.

[A voice]

It's on the left.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

And then cut this off here. That must be this map here, I would imagine.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

All right, okay. That explains it.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Chair, Madame Boisvert from Elections Canada might offer some help.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Go ahead. You're in Mr. Atamanenko's five minutes.