Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Feb. 28th, 2013

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

Eight miles, David was saying, so they're close.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Close and connected, as you would say, David. For them to be in different federal ridings, I'm trying to understand the sense of it.

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

I'm not going to speak to another riding, but in my previous career with the RCMP, I was stationed in Penticton. We dealt with Summerland quite often. They are eight miles apart. That's all I can say. They're eight miles apart.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

They are eight miles apart and have lots of connections. Some places are close in geography but not close in terms of service or anything else.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

Can I just say something? The people in the west, in Penticton, don't really care about what happens in the West Kootenays, and the people in the West Kootenays don't really care about what happens in Penticton.

The feedback I got, and David mentioned he worked there, is that in Penticton there's more of this affinity with Summerland and other communities there. To be honest with you, the communities in the southern Okanagan wouldn't mind being aligned with Penticton, but the communities west towards E. C. Manning Provincial Park, the smaller communities of Keremeos, Cawston, and Princeton, feel comfortable being part of that Similkameen Valley corridor and being aligned in the current riding. It's a difficult situation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Yes.

Monsieur Dion.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to come back to the comment Mr. Lukiwski made before. When you were invited to this committee, there was a list of questions you received. The first question was, is there a domino effect to the surrounding ridings occurring from the changes you are proposing? The second question was, have you talked to your colleagues about these proposed changes, and if so, do they agree?

Is it that you did not speak to each other, or did you? Mr. Atamanenko came with a suggestion that Mr. Wilks seems to have heard for the first time in his life, if I'm not wrong.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

Monsieur Dion, the letter I sent to the committee I sent to David to get his comments. I also sent it to Dan Albas, because I knew Dan had written the op-ed where he argued strongly to separate urban and rural, which this proposal doesn't do. I did receive feedback from David saying that he doesn't really support what I'm saying, but he basically was saying that if we have to do this, we should include the other communities there. I have been in communication with my two neighbouring MP colleagues.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Maybe you may react to the suggestions Mr. Atamanenko made a couple of minutes ago.

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

The problem I have, Mr. Dion, is that because my riding borders up against Alberta, there's only one way I can go. If the boundaries commission decides to make the riding larger, I have to go west. To me, to bring in Sicamous, as Mr. Atamanenko has suggested, would be challenging at best. From my residence to Revelstoke is six hours one way. Add another hour to get to Sicamous. I might as well just go to Vancouver because it's only five hours. It's a big, big area.

The problem is Penticton, in my opinion. That's the problem. The contiguation of Kootenay—Colombia is really irrelevant. It's moving west that triggers everything else. All I'm saying in the change to the commission is just bring back Nakusp and New Denver. It's 4,000 people at best. It's taking a part of the riding that I already have and just putting it back in. It's the northern part of the riding.

We have spoken, Mr. Atamanenko and I. We disagree fundamentally on some of the lines. If you were to ask Mr. Atamanenko, the problem herein is Penticton because it adds in a lot of the population. What do you do with it?

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

On this whole urban-rural thing, the idea is that, in general, if we're going to be adding population, it's a lot easier for accessibility to add it to urban ridings, where you add a few more city blocks. There's not much difference in the access to the MP.

This commission seems to be really worried about population more so than what I believe in the rural area should be geography. We have Nathan's riding; we have David's riding.

The question I would have for you, David, is this. Would you be happy just keeping the riding as it is, given the difficulty you have now of getting around? If we could really argue for that geographical point rather than trying to juggle and find out how we're going to fit the pieces of the puzzle and what we're going to do there.... What's wrong with keeping it like it is?

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Do you want me to respond, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Yes, go for it.

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

The problem is that when I'm in the cusp—if you look at map number three or two—I have no choice, none whatsoever. Either I drive through Kaslo, Nelson, or Salmo, or drive through Castlegar and Salmo to get back to Creston. I have to drive through these areas. I have no choice. There's no other way around. They won't let me fly. What do you want me to do? I have to drive through these areas.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

In your submission, Mr. Wilks, you conclude by saying, “This is a small change that I believe would be accepted by both Nakusp and New Denver.” You believe it, but did you check? Do you have the mayors' views?

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

I spoke to both Mayor Hamling and Mayor Bunka. Mayor Hamling would prefer to stay in the riding that she's in now. Mayor Bunka, who is in New Denver, which is 30 miles down the road from Nakusp, would prefer to stay with Alex. There's a conflict between 30 miles. I'm only asking to put in two communities, New Denver and Silverton, which is in area H, I believe. That's all I'm asking for, because I have to drive through them. Either way it's a pretty simple thing.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

I think this once again goes fundamentally against what all of these people and the 50 or so people who appeared before the three commissions stated. They do not want the West Kootenay split up. We have MLAs and mayors, and I just received letters from some mayors this morning, from Trail and from Castlegar and Nelson, and the small communities. They feel...their interest for their communities is for historical reasons. There hasn't been a split for something like 100 years. The West Kootenays have always been together. To now have this happening, they're opposed to this based on the affinity, this community of interest. What I'm trying to do here is reflect what they're saying.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Okay, thank you, Alex.

We have just a couple of minutes left in this piece, a couple of one-off questions if we want.

I have Mr. Menegakis first.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have a quick question on the document I have in front of me that Elections Canada has prepared on Mr. Atamanenko's summary of his proposal. I see the riding here of Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, population of 138,517. I don't know, is that a result of your recommendations? Is that what that overview column is? Maybe the Elections Canada people could confirm that. Is the overview what the members are recommending?

[Johanne Boisvert]

Exactly.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

So that particular riding will go to 138,000, which would be 32% above what the commission has stated for the province. Is that right? Is that correct? I just want to get clarification on that. That's what that is.

[Johanne Boisvert]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you.

Mr. Reid, be really quick.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

That was my question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

That was the same one.

Are there any other one-off questions? We have time for one more. Does anybody need one?

We thank you for coming today.

I was going to suggest arm wrestling or something.