Procedure and House Affairs Committee on April 25th, 2013

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

I wasn't, but I can.

Not being an Ontarian, it seems to me, Mr. Van Loan, that the changes you're making are modest, as you quite correctly pointed out. The main concern we have at the committee is to ensure that the domino effect has been addressed. Could you expand a little? You said you've talked to Patrick Brown, who is affected by this, and you can assure the committee that he has agreed; he believes this would be an appropriate boundary change.

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

He has, and he signed my letter to the procedure and House affairs committee reflecting his support for that.

As well, in terms of the domino effect, you can see in the numbers there that you go from one riding that's going to be 94,000, the other one 101,000, to one that's 99,000 and one that's 97,000. So the ridings are more equal, and they are both big. You get something that's less out of whack with the provincial quotient.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Had you made this proposal at the public hearings the commission conducted?

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

An individual in the local community made it, and for whatever reason the committee didn't make that change.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

I guess that was my follow-up question, if they gave any rationale for not....

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

I have not seen a rationale for it. I hypothesize that it's simply that they thought they would stick with the municipal boundary. As I said, in this case this was a very odd municipal boundary. Innisfil has been through a series of very traumatic municipal amalgamation fights with Barrie—in 1967, 1982, and 2013. Several of them resulted in court fights.

If you look at the submission from the Town of Innisfil itself, it was done by the mayor. It's almost an agonizing submission in itself, which expresses concern about Innisfil losing touch with the rest of Simcoe County and other rural areas, and that being put together with Barrie is difficult. But then they say they recognize the needs of the population, but whatever you do, please put the name “Innisfil” in the Barrie riding. It reflects that traumatized position. But I think when you put together the whole history of it, the character of how people have lived their lives, regardless of where those constantly moving municipal boundaries have been, the people in this area are oriented to the south. I think that line there to the Fourth Line of Innisfil roughly reflects the change, or, if you will, the watershed, in people's behaviour.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

This is my last question, if I may, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Van Loan, to your knowledge, has anyone—any community association, any individual, or any municipal official—expressed objection, whether it be a community of interest argument or other argument, to your suggestion of moving the boundary as such?

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

I'm not aware of anyone who objects to this proposal.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Okay.

That's all, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Super.

Madame Turmel, five minutes—or less.

[Nycole Turmel, NDP, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Van Loan, I understand that this affects Barrie, but it does not affect anyone in the east or the west. You said that a consultation was held with the MP for Barrie, and that there was no problem with this.

Mr. Lukiwski raised the issue of public support. We have no information about the kind of consultations you have held. We don't know if you have received letters, emails or any other information indicating whether or not your presentation received support.

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

I have not put together a formal set of submissions. This is largely the result of ordinary, everyday consultation with people in the community.

As I said, the municipality took a position; it's reflected in the statement on the municipality of Innisfil website. That was their submission to the commission. While it more expresses agony about being put together with Barrie, it doesn't object to it because of the real population; it does express concern about some of the rural character area being amalgamated with the urban area to the north.

That's the closest you're going to get. The councillors I spoke with who support the change said that because the council took a position in that letter, which is actually no position, they are not permitted to write a separate letter themselves, they said.

[Nycole Turmel, NDP, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Did you make a presentation at the commission?

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

I did not make a presentation at the commission, no. I did write a letter after the fact, but I did not make a presentation.

[Nycole Turmel, NDP, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Was the first submission like the one that was presented, or were changes made between the first and the second reports?

To your knowledge, have any members of your community made presentations?

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

As I said, one individual made a presentation on behalf of a number of other individuals. They met, they prepared it, and one spokesman, a local community leader, went and made a presentation.

[Nycole Turmel, NDP, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

What kind of a presentation was it? Did those individuals agree with the commission's report?

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

No, it was a presentation that reflected the submission that I'm presenting here today. In fact, it is with the encouragement of those individuals that I am here today.

[Nycole Turmel, NDP, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Okay.

That's it for me.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you.

Monsieur Dion.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have no questions for Mr. Van Loan. I think my colleagues, Mr. Lukiwski and Madame Turmel, asked the questions I had in mind, and he answered them very well. It's a modest change.

I don't blame you, but it's a bit sad that we scheduled 30 minutes for something that was not contentious and only 30 minutes for two colleagues who disagree but who are seemingly willing to find an agreement: we didn't have the time to allow them to find a solution to their disagreement.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I agree, Monsieur Dion, but my clairvoyance meter is just not working as well as you might think.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I cannot always predict what will happen at the end of the table. I can only schedule the amount of time we've been using throughout the whole study.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

I understand, Mr. Chair, but my point is this. When a colleague comes and he has agreement with his neighbouring colleague about the changes, we likely don't need to have 30 minutes to argue about that. But when two colleagues come and clearly....

We knew in advance that they had radically different views, but similarly, they were very positive and very willing to find a solution, so it would have been good to have 45 minutes with them and 15 minutes with Mr. Van Loan.