Procedure and House Affairs Committee on April 25th, 2023

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you very much.

[Jeremy Broadhurst]

If I could just add quickly—

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Yes. Then I have a question for you, Mr. Broadhurst.

[Jeremy Broadhurst]

Just very quickly, I've had the honour of working at a relatively high level on six federal election campaigns. The first three were with the opposition.

We found it very frustrating at those times to not have any kind of conduit to the intelligence security universe during those campaigns. They were moments in them where we had suspicions about things like phone banks working from other countries and we had nowhere really to direct my concerns. We had nowhere to get informed about what our rights and our duties were in those moments.

When we came into government in 2015, the landscape was really bare on this. Parties were left out on an island to deal with it themselves, despite being really at the coalface of the foreign interference struggle. The government felt it was very important to start putting some supports in place for the parties—not just the government party, but the opposition parties—and to give a conduit to share concerns, to get briefed up and to understand the vulnerabilities.

The system will evolve as it should to respond to the needs of the parties. Parties are critical institutions in the way politics work and they need that kind of support. They have lots of valuable information and lots of security information that they need to keep safe on the electronic side of things. They also to protect candidates who are being exposed to some of these attempts for the very first time.

It's good that it's in place and I hope it continues to evolve and get better.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Excellent.

I'm assuming you're referring to the rapid response mechanism that was put in place in 2018.

I know that you're here in your capacity as having worked on the campaign in 2019, but also as former chief of staff to the former minister of foreign affairs. I know you were involved with the rapid response mechanism.

Could you elaborate a little bit on your thoughts on this and what you think we should be looking at in terms of improving that mechanism?

[Jeremy Broadhurst]

Madam Chair, I was chief of staff to the former foreign affairs minister. It was Chrystia Freeland.

At that time, Canada was hosting the G7. Several countries had just gone through electoral experiences—the United States and France amongst them—where foreign interference had played a critical role, not necessarily in the outcome, but in the conduct of those election campaigns.

As the chair of the G7, Canada was able to get everybody on board with the idea that foreign interference is not about one party being chosen over another. It's about a destabilizing effect and the undermining of democracy writ large. It didn't matter which party was in government; all countries would benefit from sharing the information, best practices and coordinating efforts to fight it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

Ms. Gaudreau, as always, you may speak in the language of your choice. If there are any delays due to the interpretation of what you have to say, I will take it into account.

You have the floor for six minutes, Ms. Gaudreau.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I also thank the witnesses and my colleagues for being with us. They have already defined the problems, but I want to know more.

Gentlemen, as you know, elections were held in the United States in 2016, France in 2017 and Europe in 2019. All those elections were targets for interference.

Knowing all that, what was the Liberal Party's state of alert in 2019 and 2021 regarding attempts at foreign interference?

[Azam Ishmael]

Thank you for the question.

Obviously, foreign interference is always on the radar for a party's national director, regardless of whether it's the Conservative Party, the Liberal Party or any other. Monitoring doesn't focus exclusively on foreign political interference. In fact, the same system would be in place to protect Canada against cyberattacks and other threats. That is always on our radar.

As we saw, especially the United States, emails were published on the internet. That's why we were in a state of alert for everything having to do with our electronic systems.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

From what I understand, you were well aware of everything that could happen.

I'd like you to give us more detail on the way in which the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, the Ontario Provincial Police, the Sûreté du Québec, the Communications Security Establishment or the Canadian Security Intelligence Service gives you information or alerts regarding nominees or their entourage during the election period.

[Azam Ishmael]

I don't understand—

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I'm talking about the way information is brought to you.

[Azam Ishmael]

During the national election campaign period, questions and information come from everywhere. Sometimes, it comes from a volunteer—

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

And then? Do you receive information or do you question people to get it? That's what I'd like to know.

[Azam Ishmael]

We don't question our nominees about that. As for all our teams, in a certain way, that's far removed from the national campaign, but we are—

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

When you say you don't question your nominees, what does that mean? Do you mean you don't question them about what they've done in the past few years or the people they're associated with, for example?

[Azam Ishmael]

To be accepted into the Liberal Party of Canada and be greenlighted to represent it, nominees have to go through a rather exhaustive process. They have to fill out a form that includes a lot of questions on their life, what they've done, the universities they went to and what led them to want to join the Liberal Party, among other things. Volunteers then question the candidates, along the same lines as what's in the questionnaire. That's how we collect information and select our nominees.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Explain to me the decision-making process regarding the admission, or not, of candidates. There's a hoop to jump through to see if a candidate can be accepted into the party. I am being very specific with my questions, but people are watching us and they really want to know more about the safety of our electoral system.

I would like your explanation of the way the process works within the Liberal Party.

[Azam Ishmael]

The process for admitting candidates to the Liberal Party of Canada is a rather long. Members on the other side of the table can confirm it. It depends, first of all, on the person's background, and the process therefore starts with the form. Once we receive correctly filled out forms, we conduct solvency and security checks. The results are sent to the party. An employee checks to see if there's anything out of order. Volunteers then receive the candidates for an interview. Once it's been determined that everything is in order and the person wants to run, there are two possible outcomes.

First of all, if the committee greenlights the candidate to join the party and there are no other candidates who want to run in the riding, obviously, they're nominated by acclamation. If other candidates follow the same process and want to run, a local election is held in the riding to determine which members of the party will become our nominee.

Later on in the process, when the campaign is getting closer, the leader or the party endorses the nomination with Elections Canada, to say—

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Did you say, "the leader or the party"?

[Azam Ishmael]

Yes, that's it. The process changed in 2019 or 2021, I think. I don't remember the exact date. Elections Canada now allows parties to use its system and send the nominees they endorse electronically.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Go ahead, Madam Blaney.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I thank you both for being here to be witnesses for this important study.

I understand that you can't talk about details, so I will do my best to ask more about internal processes so that I better understand how those things work. Both of you have done two different campaigns, so I would love to hear from both of you.

When briefings come forward with any concerns about a particular candidate or campaign, what is the internal process you take to talk to your leader, talk to the candidate and to their campaign manager? I'm just trying to understand: when you have that information, what are the next steps?

[Jeremy Broadhurst]

I think Azam did a pretty good job of giving the overview of the process that it generally follows, but I know you were talking about what happens if you find something.

First and foremost, I think you have to remember that political parties are not law enforcement agencies. There's a moment when we have to say it is not appropriate for us to start investigating a crime, for example—