Evidence of meeting #48 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was witnesses.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
It doesn't mention subsection 94(2.3) in there at all? No, it doesn't, right?
When you look at proposed subsection 94(2.4) in the French, do you see the number (2.3) anywhere in there? It doesn't mention subsection 94(2.3) there at all either, right?
4:45 p.m.
President, British Columbia Federation of Labour
Let me just look, two seconds, hang on. I can't find that part. Can you help me here? Where is it?
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
Take my word for it. If anyone wants to correct me—
4:45 p.m.
President, British Columbia Federation of Labour
No, no, I wouldn't want to get this wrong. Let me do that again. Subsection 94(2.3), right?
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
I'm going to move on. I want to talk to Mr. Koshman for a second.
First, I want to ask how many businesses you said you represent.
4:45 p.m.
General Counsel, British Columbia Maritime Employers Association
There are 70 companies involved in port operations.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
Right. And how many unions do you deal with?
4:45 p.m.
General Counsel, British Columbia Maritime Employers Association
One single union.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
4:45 p.m.
General Counsel, British Columbia Maritime Employers Association
Yes, the International Longshore and Warehouse Union and several locals of that union that are covered by the bargaining agent for the ILWU, the Canadian area of the ILWU.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
Can you tell me what types of goods are shipped through those ports, some examples?
4:45 p.m.
General Counsel, British Columbia Maritime Employers Association
Through the west coast ports predominantly every major resource that Canada exports, from grain to coal to potash to sulphur, liquid cargoes. We're an exporting nation, and that is the major outlet for our exports. Coming the other way are all the consumer goods that come from Southeast Asia, China, that we use every day and buy from the Canadian Tire to the local store down the street that sells toys.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
You talked a little bit about what would happen in a strike situation if you weren't allowed to use replacement workers at all. Let's use an example of the farmers. How would that affect farmers in Canada?
4:45 p.m.
General Counsel, British Columbia Maritime Employers Association
How that would affect farmers is that the flow of grain would stop completely, because the outlet for the shipment of that product overseas would be shut.
In terms of the reality from the ports' perspective, the facts are that every time we've had a major dispute, on numerous occasions since the seventies, Parliament has had to intervene--whatever the government of the day was, 1972, 1975, 1991, 1994, 1995--all separate acts of Parliament bringing the disputes to an end so the flow of goods could continue through those ports.
After the last enactment of the West Coast Ports Operations Act in 1995, the Sims task force was struck. There was a problem with the Canada Labour Code, clearly. We were having too many strikes and too many parliamentary interventions to resolve them.
Since that report and since the enactment of the Sims recommendations, including the enactment on replacement workers, we've had zero. It's working. It's working on federal ground. Our members say the legislation as it exists is working. There is no need to change it.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
I'd like someone to speak to the difference in the amount of effort and the amount invested in time and energy in the Sims report versus what your thoughts are on the amount of time put into this legislation that would undo what Sims did.
4:45 p.m.
General Counsel, British Columbia Maritime Employers Association
I read the transcripts of the proceedings before this committee, and one witness who appeared was Mr. McDermott, who is not a union representative, not an employee representative; he's a senior, long-standing member of the Labour Department, and was involved in the Sims task force. His evidence was pretty clear, and I want to quote from it, because it's the feeling our member employers have. This is what he said:
In contrast to the intensive consultations held when labour laws have previously been amended, there appears to have been no attempt to reconcile differing views. The process invites retaliation and corrosive pendulum swings in the event of changes in the political conjuncture. It manifestly ignores the delicate balance achieved when part I was last comprehensively reviewed. It offers a one-sided and piecemeal addition to the statute that gives no compensating provision to those who disagree.
Our view is simply that. We are looking for an illness. We have a pill, and there is no illness.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
4:45 p.m.
Vice-President, Human Resources, Business Council of British Columbia
I want to say very briefly, the Sims task force consulted widely. We met with them at least once, if not twice or more, in our offices with member companies who are federally regulated. We had no consultation with this, absolutely none, until we were allowed to appear here.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
I'm going to hand the rest of my time to Mr. Hiebert.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
Thank you.
A key question I think all members of this committee want answered is the impact ordinary Canadians would face under this legislation. For example, we've heard witnesses talk today about the impact on the airline industry if a de-icing crew were to go on strike.
I'd like to hear from the representatives of the business community. Can they briefly articulate for us the impact on ordinary Canadians?
4:50 p.m.
President, Edson Packaging Machinery, Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters
Very simply, right now in our company—and, again, it's a small one—we have six people in the United States who are trying to get home to their families to be redeployed to other places. We have two people in Europe who are trying to transact business and we have four customers coming in from Italy. And we're a very small organization.
It would mean, for example, our payroll may not get into a bank, so we may not pay our people. When that happens, as a result of other things—again, I'm only here to talk about the effect on federally regulated businesses, not us—that's what happens very quickly. Within about two weeks, I would estimate half our 80 people would not be there.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
Because they'd not get their pay cheques?
4:50 p.m.
President, Edson Packaging Machinery, Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters
Not get their pay cheques, they'd be stranded, and in business, because we're a very integrated economy, you only get one chance with the customer.
4:50 p.m.
Vice-Chair, Coalition of BC Businesses
To pick up on the notion of an integrated economy, the ripple effect, the domino effect, depending on the nature of the shutdown, on smaller businesses that rely on exports, imports, whatever it is that would come into the country or across the transportation link or through the bank or over the phone line, would be horrendous. These small businesses that employ an awful lot of people in this country, the majority of people in this country, would be facing hardships to which they would have no recourse.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Winter, and thank you, Mr. Hiebert.
We're now going to move to our second round, which will be five minutes, and we have Mr. Savage.