Human Resources Committee on May 10th, 2007

[Lynne Yelich, Conservative, Blackstrap, SK]

If that's what's meant. But we don't know if that's what is meant.

You're not sure?

[Shawn Tupper]

I'm not sure of the intent of this committee or the drafters, so I can't comment on that. But if the intent is to include contribution agreements, then it would capture programming offered by my department.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Mr. Lake.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I have a question for the officials as well. Obviously we've pretty much stated that the only purpose—and we'll get to it in my new title for the bill—is to withhold payments, really. That seems to be the only thing you could actually do with this piece of legislation.

So would this then allow the federal government to withhold payments from first nations groups as well, so we could actually be transferring less to first nations groups under this? Is my interpretation correct?

[Glennie Graham]

Presumably if the bill were to pass and the interpretation that was given to the criteria and conditions was deemed to be contrary to the way first nations delivered their programs, in theory, or supposedly, we would have to withhold funding.

[Lynne Yelich, Conservative, Blackstrap, SK]

So it's just a badly written bill.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I think that's been stated once or twice.

Mr. Lessard, do you have a comment?

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

That's an understatement over there.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Mr. Lessard, did you have a comment? Did you want to speak?

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

I would like to make a brief comment, Mr. Chairman. Even if we agree to review the grounds for this decision, we have already adopted the principle. The choice has already been made.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Okay.

Is there any more discussion on this?

[Lynne Yelich, Conservative, Blackstrap, SK]

We're abstaining.

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Let's move to amendment L-3, then.

Ms. Dhalla.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I just want to make a point of clarification. Are we going through all of the amendments and then going clause-by-clause, or are we actually...?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Okay, what we will do is just as it's written in the sheet. We will go through the amendments as they relate to the clause, and then go to the clause. Once all the clauses are done, we'll vote on the bill.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Ms. Dhalla.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

The third amendment states, that Bill C-303, in clause 2 , be amended by replacing line 14 on page 2 with the following:

child care program of a province, territory or aboriginal peoples' organization by

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Is there any discussion, or all we all talked out from the first hour and a half?

Mr. Lake.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Again, it's not obviously the way that it's used in each of these clauses. Each of these definitions has an entirely different ramification, so we have to ask every single time we deal with this, what does the insertion of the phrase mean to the definition it's being applied to, because it's different in every case.

So in this case, as you look at that clause, what is the ramification of inserting this phrase?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I don't know if anyone else wants to answer it, so you guys are stuck with it.

[Shawn Tupper]

Again, in the instance of this clause, looking at what is determined to be a child care service, it's who provides that service. In the context of these amendments, you would need to ensure that you're capturing all organizations that provide child care services to aboriginal people. They're not necessarily all aboriginal organizations that do this. That would be particularly the case in the off-reserve context for the urban-based aboriginal population.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Can you maybe give us an example? We've dealt with typical situations in the provinces or in the territories, but what would be a typical service provider in an aboriginal peoples' organization that this would actually apply to?

[Glennie Graham]

A friendship centre would be an example.

[Shawn Tupper]

A Métis local, indeed.