Human Resources Committee on Feb. 5th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

We're going to move to number four, and I want to remind the committee that number four was based on the 39th Parliament. There has been a change in the number of seats. I know there probably has been some discussion. I believe a proposal of speaking orders has been handed out.

I want to address the speaking order that has been proposed. I'm going to read the motion first as I look at number four: “that in hearing evidence, the witnesses be allowed a maximum of ten (10) minutes for their presentation and that the rounds of questioning be as follows”. Now I'm going to refer to what has been proposed and handed out, that the first round look at Liberal, Bloc, NDP, and Conservative for seven minutes each; the second round look at Liberal, Conservative, Bloc, Conservative, Liberal, Conservative, NDP, and Conservative for five minutes. I want people to have a chance to think about that for a second.

Why don't you move that motion and then comment on it? Mr. Komarnicki is going to move that motion and then he is going to speak to that.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I move the motion as presented.

I've had some discussion with Mr. Savage, Mr. Lessard, and Mr. Martin. Essentially what the motion attempts to do is give everyone an opportunity to speak, but it ensures that the NDP gets a second-round spot to speak, and it is finished off by a Conservative if there is time.

Is that your understanding, Mr. Martin?

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

We're in there, but I'm going to have some comments to make after you.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Okay. And my sense is that this motion should read that notwithstanding all of this, the NDP should get to speak on the second round.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Now we're going to take a list of names to talk about this motion moved by Mr. Komarnicki.

Mr. Martin, did you want to chat about it?

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

I'm certainly happier with this than I was with the one circulated yesterday.

Just to give a little historical background, for those who haven't been here before, we've been consistently losing ground at this committee. Two Parliaments ago, each party had equal opportunity in both rounds. Then we got to a third round, when the size of the caucuses kicked in.

If you look at the history of committees over the history of Parliament, in committees we don't work so much on the number of members around the table; we make sure that each party gets equal opportunity to ask questions and participate.

The last time around we were dropped down, so we actually came in behind the Liberals on the second round. I'm sorry, we came in early in the round. Last time we were sixth; this time we're seventh.

I just want to say, Mr. Chair, that it was your fairness that made it work last time. You made sure, in managing the time of the committee, that we actually got to the NDP in the second round, and we did, and I was satisfied with that. We're now seventh on the list in the second round.

I guess I'm just making a point. I'm going to be okay with this as long as I can be assured by you that you will continue to operate in the same fashion and that there will be effort made--I notice that a Conservative member is going to get a spot after us in that second round--to ensure that we all get our fair shot at asking a question and that we are included in the second round. It didn't make any sense at all to me, in the list that was circulated yesterday, that we would be dropped completely from the second round, that we would get in on just this first round and then sit and watch for the rest of the proceedings. It didn't make any sense to me.

As long as you continue to operate in as fair a fashion as you have been, that will be acceptable to me.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Okay. Thanks, Tony.

I just want to point out that even with this list, there's still one Conservative who does not have a chance to speak. There are actually five Conservatives. Oh, do you have all five here? So what happens, Tony, is that you get a chance to speak before all members get a chance to speak. We want to continue to work to make sure that all members show up and do the work, that everyone gets a chance. And then, at my discretion, as we did before, if we have more time and more people want to ask questions, by all means, we'll start to recognize you.

I have Mr. Cannan, Mr. Savage, and Madame Folco.

Go ahead, Mr. Cannan.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

You articulated my perspective very well, thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thanks.

We'll have Mr. Savage.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Well, actually, I was just going to say that we just came from the international trade committee, and we passed a similar motion saying that everybody gets to speak once before the NDP gets to speak a second time. I think we're being more generous in this committee than in the previous one.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Mr. Savage.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

I want to thank Mr. Komarnicki for initiating a discussion on this so that we can figure it out.

This committee has worked well in the past. I think we have to recognize that there is an extra member of the Conservative Party on the committee and that the person should have a chance to speak. We want to be flexible. I know that you, as chair, on occasion will say that we only have so much time and will ask if we can we go down to three-minute rounds, or whatever it is. That has to work. If the committee is going to work as it has in the past--and it's worked quite well in the past--then we all have to make it work for each other as well as for ourselves. Ultimately we all do better. So this makes sense.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you.

We'll go to Madame Folco.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would also like to congratulate the party opposite, particularly the parliamentary secretary. The document we have before us at the moment, including the list for the second round, contains better ideas than those put forward yesterday, because the NDP representative is on the second round. It is important that this be so.

I would like to thank the parliamentary secretary for his flexibility and understanding. It is important that the NDP member be on both rounds. After all, he is an elected member of Parliament.

I will not repeat what my colleague Mr. Savage said. However, you have one additional member, so it makes sense that you would have one additional turn. Next time, we will see these things differently.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I know, disappointing as that may seem at times.

I think having a chance to talk before committees works well. When anyone drops things on people at the committee level, it's very hard even to have some discussions with our own members. So thank you for that.

If there's no more discussion, I'm going to call the question on Mr. Komarnicki's motion as read.

(Motion agreed to.)

Thank you.

Let's move to motion five on the list.

What has been suggested is that we combine motion five and motion 12 to read as one motion, so I will read it out here.

Motion five states: “That, if requested, reasonable travel, accommodation and living expenses be reimbursed to witnesses not exceeding two (2) representatives per organization”, and I am going to add: “and that, if requested, reasonable child care expenses of witnesses be reimbursed.”

Once again, for our new members, the reason that has been suggested in the past is that we are a committee that deals with child care, amongst other things, and certainly we would want to make sure that people were not held back as a result of not being able to do that.

Mr. Lessard, you're going to make that motion? It is so moved. Thank you very much, sir.

Is there any discussion on that motion? All right, I'll just call the question on that motion.

(Motion agreed to)

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

We're going to move to motion six now, which is that the clerk of the committee be authorized to distribute to the members of the committee documents only when they exist in both official languages.

I'll have Madame Folco make that motion.

Is there any discussion on that? Madame Folco.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Just a point of information. In the past, on all the committees of which I have been a member, the chair has always agreed to motion number 6. However, in the past, certain individuals—not committee members—have sometimes tried to distribute documents in one official language only, without going through the chair.

I am not asking for a motion on this; I would simply ask that committee members acknowledge that no documents may be distributed without the chair's authorization. That is what motion 6 states.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Are there any other comments on motion six? Then I'll call the question on motion six.

(Motion agreed to)

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

We'll move to motion seven: that the committee authorize the chair, in consultation with the clerk, to make the necessary arrangements to provide for working meals, from time to time, and that the cost of these meals be charged to the committee's budget.

I guess that may be a little more relevant given the fact that we're meeting between 11 o'clock and 1 o'clock at this point in time.

Did you want to comment on that Mr. Lessard?

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Yes, I will move the motion, Mr. Chairman. In fact, we had a debate on that very subject when Ms. Folco was the chair.

Our committee starts at 11 o'clock. Our debates sometimes go beyond 1 o'clock. Even when we don't go beyond 1 o'clock, we are often forced to run to a caucus or to prepare for question period, and as a result we do not have time to eat. That creates a problem. When I don't have time to eat lunch, that raises health concerns for me. That is why I am moving it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

It is moved by Mr. Lessard.

Thank you, Mr. Lessard. I doubt we'll get any disagreement here, but let's call the vote.

(Motion agreed to)

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

We'll move to motion eight: that, unless otherwise ordered, each committee member be allowed to have one staff person at in camera meetings. In addition, each party shall be permitted to have one party staff member at in camera meetings.

Can I have someone to move that? It is moved by Mr. Savage. Thank you very much.

Is there any discussion on this? Once again, this is fairly routine. I'm going to call the question on motion eight as proposed.

Do we have some discussion still?

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Okay, just hold on one second.

Once again, to give clarification, this was to allow parties to have someone from the whip's office there, just so they are in touch with what's going on. I believe this has worked well in the past.

If there's no more discussion, I'll call the question.

(Motion agreed to)

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

Let's move to motion nine, which is that unless there is unanimous consent, two days' written notice must be given before any new item of business be considered by the committee.

Once again, 48 hours has been standard at all committees.

Okay, can I have someone make that motion? Mr. Savage so moves.

Now we have an amendment by Mr. Komarnicki. Go ahead, sir.