Evidence of meeting #10 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ccl.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Hélène Gosselin  Deputy Minister of Labour, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair (Ms. Candice Hoeppner (Portage—Lisgar, CPC)) Conservative Candice Bergen

I would like to call to order the tenth meeting of the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities. The orders of the day, pursuant to Standing Order 81(4), are the main estimates, 2010-11, votes 1, 5, 10, 15, 20, and 25 under Human Resources and Skills Development, referred to the committee on Wednesday, March 3, 2010, and, pursuant to Standing Order 81(7), the report on plans and priorities, 2010-11, of the Department of Human Resources and Skills Development.

We are very pleased to welcome two ministers today: the Honourable Diane Finley, Minister of Human Resources and Skills Development, and the Honourable Lisa Raitt, Minister of Labour.

We are so pleased to have you here today.

We also want to welcome the officials who are with you. We have with us officials from the Department of Human Resources and Skills Development as well as officials from Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation. Thank you for being here.

We look forward to hearing from you. I will just let you know that we'll have your presentations and then we will allow the members to ask you questions.

If it's all right, Minister Finley, we can begin with you.

3:30 p.m.

Haldimand—Norfolk Ontario

Conservative

Diane Finley ConservativeMinister of Human Resources and Skills Development

Sure. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Merci beaucoup.

It's a real pleasure to appear before this committee once again, this time to present the 2010-11 main estimates and also the report on plans and priorities for Human Resources and Skills Development and for the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, which outlines our government's plans for the year ahead.

Let me begin, if I may, by putting these plans in context. Last year, the world experienced the worst economic downturn since the Second World War. Although Canada has fared better than many other countries, Canadian families were significantly affected by the global recession.

That's why our Conservative government took action through our economic action plan. This comprehensive plan provided investments to help those who were hardest hit by creating and maintaining jobs and by helping Canadians prepare for the jobs of tomorrow.

Madam Chair, we can often get bogged down by the numbers, but what Canadians care about most are results. So what impact is our action plan having on them and on their families? Well, I am proud to say that the results so far show that our economic action plan is working.

First, Canadians who have lost their jobs and are having a hard time getting back to work are receiving support through our enhancements to the employment insurance system.

To date, over 580,000 unemployed Canadians have received an extra five weeks of EI benefits.

In addition, the extra support we've extended to long-tenured workers will help up to 200,000 Canadians who have worked hard, paid premiums for years, and now need some extra help.

We've made sure that Canadians are receiving their benefits in a timely manner. Despite a very large spike in EI claims last year, we were able to maintain our service standards, and Canadians received the benefits in the same timeframe that they did before the global downturn took hold.

Second, we're helping Canadians get the training and work experience they need to transition to the jobs of tomorrow. This is part of our government's commitment to have a workforce that is the best educated, most skilled, and most flexible in the world. Close to one million Canadians received skills training in the last year alone, thanks to our government's unprecedented investments.

We know that older workers often have difficulty finding a new job because they have limited skills. That's why we increased investments in the Targeted Initiative for Older Workers by an additional $60 million.

Keeping older Canadians in the work force is becoming increasingly important due to the demographic challenges our country is facing and because of their invaluable knowledge and mentoring abilities.

We're also encouraging Canadians to pursue the skilled trades and to complete their apprenticeship training. Over 140,000 Canadians have received the $2,000 apprenticeship incentive grant since it was introduced in January 2007. Close to 20,000 Canadians have already received the $2,000 apprenticeship completion grant since it was introduced less than a year ago.

Our government is committed to helping Canadians receive a post-secondary education. We have significantly improved student financing. For example, over 265,000 students received grants this year under our new, improved program. That's money that they don't have to pay back. And that's 120,000 more students than benefited under the old program.

Third, we are creating and protecting jobs. The enhanced work-sharing program has been a huge success right across the country. In fact, to date, over 255,000 Canadians' jobs have been protected. This means that these Canadians can continue to put food on their table for their families and that businesses can keep their skilled workers.

In addition, we froze EI premiums last year and this year. This means that Canadians are able to keep more of their money when they need it most and employers are able to maintain their skilled workforce.

Furthermore, our investments in housing are providing Canadians a hand up while they are creating tens of thousands of jobs right across the country.

We know that youth employment was particularly hard hit this past year. Our infusion of an extra $10 million in the Canada summer jobs program last year resulted in almost 40,000 jobs being created for students last summer. This year the program will again receive an additional investment of $10 million that we expect will produce the same results.

Madam Chair, the results so far make it very clear: our economic action plan is working. It's creating jobs and it's helping Canadians get back to work. Now we're seeing several positive signs of economic recovery. In January we saw the largest monthly increase in GDP since December 2006, and the fifth consecutive month of economic growth. In March, employment increased by 17,900. This was the sixth month of job gains in the last eight months. Since July 2009, about 180,000 net new jobs have been created.

The global accounting firm KPMG recently ranked Canada the most competitive industrialized country for job creation. Just last week, the OECD predicted that Canada's economic growth will lead all G7 countries this year by a wide margin.

This is good news for Canadians and for the Canadian economy, but we cannot become complacent. Our economic recovery is fragile. It's imperative that we continue with the implementation of year two of our economic action plan.

That is what the Main Estimates and the Report on Plans and Priorities are all about. They confirm our commitment to creating jobs, helping Canadian families and continuing our unprecedented investments in training to help Canadians transition into a new career and to ensure Canadians have the skills they need for the jobs of tomorrow.

It's important to note that the main estimates and RPP do not include the smart investments made in budget 2010. Budget 2010 reaffirms our commitment to year two of the economic action plan, and even builds upon those investments.

For example, budget 2010 extends the enhanced work-sharing program so that Canadians can keep their jobs. It includes significant investments to help students obtain employment and work experience. It provides additional support to Canadian families, including the families of our armed forces members. It also includes funding to educate seniors to protect them against financial abuse. It adds to our government's unparalleled support for persons with disabilities by encouraging their full participation as well as their financial security.

The stimulus was necessary and it is delivering results. However, it was short term and targeted and will soon come to an end. Once implementation of our Economic Action Plan is complete, our government will focus on returning the budget to balance.

Canadians work very hard for their money and they expect their government to use it wisely and in a prudent manner. We believe that, just like Canadians, government should live within its means. We believe this is important because, over the long term, a balanced budget means better jobs and stronger growth. It's also the best way to ensure that Canada's social infrastructure is sustainable for the long term.

But just as important as what we will do is what we won't do.

We will not raise taxes on hard-working Canadian families or on small and medium-sized businesses that are integral to job creation.

We will not cut transfers like the previous Liberal governments did.

We will not engage in massive new spending programs that Canadians are not asking for and cannot afford.

Madam Chair, our Conservative government's number one priority remains the economic recovery. Canadians and members of the committee can rest assured that our government will remain vigilant.

We will stay the course and focus on the task at hand of implementing year two of our Economic Action Plan to help sustain Canada's economic recovery. We are focused on maintaining Canada's economic advantage now and for the future.

Thanks to the investments in the economic action plan, along with the hard work and ingenuity of Canadians and Canadian business, I am confident that Canada will emerge from this recession stronger than ever before.

Merci, Madam Chair.

After the remarks of my counterpart, the Minister of Labour, I will be happy to answer your questions.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Candice Bergen

Merci beaucoup, Minister Finley.

We'll now go to Minister Raitt please.

3:40 p.m.

Halton Ontario

Conservative

Lisa Raitt ConservativeMinister of Labour

Madam Chair and everyone, thank you for having me here today. I am extremely pleased to be here along with my colleague, the Honourable Diane Finley, to meet you all, to have an opportunity to talk to you a little bit about the labour program, and to highlight how its mandate and activities are really there to support hard-working Canadians as well as successful Canadian businesses.

Federally regulated enterprises are the ones that we in the Ministry of Labour oversee. They are represented in some key economic sectors, so ensuring their health and prosperity is essential to our economy. As well, doing so strengthens Canada's innovation and makes Canada a destination of choice for new business investment.

There's no question that Canadians spend a lot of time at work. There are very few things as important to a Canadian's quality of life as a safe, encouraging workplace and a dependable source of income. A well-functioning workplace also allows workers and managers to focus on productivity and innovation. A strong working relationship between workers and managers will help, in the end, to contribute to Canada's economic vitality.

This underscores the key role of the labour program, which is to promote a safe, innovative, productive, and cooperative workplace. It's within this balanced framework that the partners can and do thrive.

I want to start by reminding members of and picking up on what Minister Finley said: that our government's top priority is to complete year two of Canada's economic action plan. Through this economic action plan, our government took decisive steps to protect incomes, create jobs, ease credit markets, and help workers and communities get back on their feet.

Within this context, I want to highlight for you some of the activities that the labour program implements to support this renewed prosperity and well-being for the benefit of all Canadians.

First, the wage earner protection program, or WEPP, is an initiative that has been a tremendous success in responding to the economic downturn. This program supports workers at a really difficult time in their lives. It provides timely compensation for wages, vacation pay, severance pay, and termination pay when their employers go bankrupt.

Since our government implemented this program in July of 2008, and with its expansion in Canada's economic action plan, the program has played an important role in supporting workers who were owed money by bankrupt employers. In the past fiscal year, over 16,000 Canadians have benefited from the program, with some $36 million in compensation having been paid.

Another important area of activity is the mediation and conciliation services that are provided to federally regulated employers and unions that are engaged in collective bargaining. These services encourage the resolution of differences without a work stoppage. That's an outcome that is important not only to the parties but also to the Canadian economy on the whole.

Of the approximately 650 collective agreements reached in the federal jurisdiction in the last four years with the assistance of federal mediators and conciliators, over 95% were settled without a strike or a lockout. This is an impressive record and it has remained intact even in this economic climate.

Now, going forward, we'll continue with this strong track record by pursuing proactive interventions, including preventative mediation, which is designed to improve overall labour relations and reduce the likelihood of major labour disputes.

In the second phase of Canada's economic action plan, our government reaffirmed its dedication to the successful completion of free trade and to making progress on concluding new free trade agreements. The labour program plays a key role in this area by supporting the government's international trade agenda through negotiation and implementation of labour cooperation agreements, or LCAs. These accompany each free trade agreement. The government is committed to pursuing labour relations with international partners that respect labour standards and to ensuring that human rights and increased economic activity both are emphasized during these negotiations.

I am very pleased to report that LCAs have been signed with Peru, Colombia, and Jordan. Negotiations are ongoing with other key trading partners. Not only do these agreements reflect and promote the values that we as Canadians cherish, but they also serve to ensure that level playing field for Canadian companies working in the global economy.

On the domestic front, employment standards play a key role in defining responsibilities for workplace partners as they relate to such things as leave, hours of work, and, of course, pay. As well, occupational health and safety legislation ensures that employees are safe from injury and occupational illness, because, fundamentally, safe workplaces mean more efficient work environments and of course higher productivity.

When these standards are not respected, the labour program plays an enforcement role. In other words, the program is responsible for making sure that the ground rules for safe, fair, productive workplaces are understood and followed. That benefits everyone involved.

Similarly, it's essential to ensure that the rules under which we expect workplace partners to operate are effective and efficient, that they contribute to positive results, and that they continue to meet the needs of all the parties. So, during 2009, the labour program consulted with stakeholders and the public on how federal employment standards can be modernized. We all recognize that the 21st century workplace is vastly different from the workplaces in the past.

We know that Canadians need support in balancing their work, their family, and their civic responsibilities and that employers need flexibility in managing their workforce and their business. Currently we are assessing the results from the consultations and we're taking a view to ensuring that we're providing the necessary flexibility to support the needs both of the employees and of the employers in the current economy.

Madam Chair, the final area I'd like to highlight is our government's employment equity programs. These encourage the establishment of working environments that are free from barriers for four designated groups in Canada: women, aboriginal peoples, persons with disabilities, and members of visible minorities.

Our efforts in this area include ensuring that employers understand and meet their obligations under the Employment Equity Act, and that helps promote equitable workplaces for all Canadians. By identifying barriers to the designated groups, gaps in representation are defined and steps can be taken to reduce these hurdles.

To give you an example, CIBC has a women's network and a mentoring circle for women in the workplace. Telus has implemented a “mapping your path to balance” program, which helps women find a work/life balance. I'm sure there are a lot of women around this table who would like to subscribe to that program.

For aboriginal peoples, considerable work is under way in many federally regulated companies to ensure that there is an open and inclusive workplace. Alliance, for example, has put in place a full-time aboriginal relations lead at its Calgary headquarters, while CTV sends its job postings to various aboriginal associations, such as Quebec Native Women Inc.

We also support the racism-free workplace strategy, which helps us to foster inclusive workplaces that can take full advantage of the skills and talents of all Canadians. Immigration can contribute greatly to Canada's growth over the next 20 years, and new immigrant workers, along with the increase in the aboriginal population, account for all of the growth in the labour force.

So with a growing labour market, it is essential that we foster inclusive workplaces that welcome Canadians of all backgrounds, not only because this makes Canada a more just society and better able to attract talent from abroad, but because it also allows employers to take full advantage of the varied range of abilities across the Canadian work pool. This makes our economy stronger and benefits all Canadians.

The full and fair participation of all members of Canada's workforce will become increasingly important. These programs that I've mentioned play an important part in supporting that key objective.

In 2009 the labour program undertook a strategic review of its activities to ensure that its programs remain relevant and that Canadians are receiving value for money. The outcome of that review, which was announced under budget 2010, will generate some $7.3 million in savings by fiscal year 2012-13.

The strategic review process confirmed the continuing importance of the labour program's mandate to foster fair, productive, safe workplaces and cooperative work relations. It demonstrated that our activities fall squarely within the defined roles and responsibilities of the federal government and also allowed us to bring enhanced focus and clarity to the longer-term vision for the organization. I am confident that the labour program will be a stronger, more focused organization as a result of its strategic review process.

This is the overview of the labour program, Madam Chair, demonstrating how we're helping to build and maintain a strong, adaptable economy by ensuring our workplaces are safe, fair, healthy, and productive. I look forward to responding with my colleagues to questions from the committee.

Thank you very much.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Candice Bergen

Thank you, Minister.

We will begin our first round of questions for the committee members. I'll just remind all members that this first round of questioning is seven minutes long, which will include your questions and answers.

We will begin with Mr. Savage, please.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Ministers, for taking the time to be with us.

Minister Finley, why did you not refund CCL?

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

The Canadian Council on Learning, as you're probably aware, was set up several years ago with a very defined five-year lifespan for the funding. That was the way it was established. We did extend some funding for a year because they hadn't used it all, but there was always a defined term for the funding.

We've identified that we do need a broader range of labour market information. Quite frankly, with the labour market situation as it is, with labour and skill shortages in many cases, we need a broader range of information. We've worked with the provinces and territories on identifying some of those gaps. We need more international information.

We've consulted with employers. They agree with us. We are working with the provinces and territories to develop information that is going to be more timely and more responsive to the needs of employers, post-secondary institutions, and the provinces and territories.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

This work is exactly what CCL was doing so well, according to everybody from Don Drummond to the secretary-general of the OECD. In fact, CCL's model, the composite learning index, is now being adopted by the OECD nations, it's that good, and nobody can understand why CCL was de-funded.

You were here last February. In testimony, you indicated the following: “The funding for that”--CCL--“has been extended to the end of next year. There will be discussions about the future”.

How many times did you meet with Dr. Paul Cappon of CCL or the board of directors to discuss that funding?

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

My officials met with them on an ongoing basis, particularly since the extension of the funding, which I did approve a year ago. But what we've identified, in consultation with the stakeholders, many of whom are key users of labour market information, is that there were other needs that weren't being met. We wanted to explore those.

We need more than data that is already available so we are working with the provinces and territories—with the Forum of Labour Market Ministers, as an example—to find ways that will better meet all of the needs of those who are looking for jobs, those who are trying to prepare students and others for jobs, and employers who are looking to find people.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Thank you.

Now, I understand that the CCL has asked to meet with you on a number of occasions and you have not met with them. Is that what you're telling me?

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

The decision is past. It's done. The funding has ended.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Did this ever go to cabinet, this possibility of extending the funding for CCL?

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

I couldn't discuss cabinet conversations.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Was this a political decision?

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

I could not discuss cabinet conversations whether they did or did not exist.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Your officials indicated...and I have a letter that you sent to Robert Giroux of CCL on May 8 of last year wherein you indicate that officials are in fact discussing with CCL “stabilizing strategies for the organization”.

It seems pretty clear that CCL was blindsided by this loss. They asked to meet with you as the minister and you would not meet with CCL to discuss this.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

The fact is that when the previous Liberal government set up the funding arrangement with CCL, it was for a defined term of five years, and five years only. There were no renewal clauses in it.

After the five-year period, or near the end of it, CCL did approach us, saying that they hadn't spent all five years' worth of the money, and could they have that money still, to continue for another year? We did agree to that, but it was in full recognition that it was the end of the funding. There were no promises made of any future funding.

During that period of time we listened to our stakeholders. We listened to the people who were looking for--

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Well, Minister, with respect, I'm hoping that your answers would be--

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

--learning information that they could use and we responded to their request.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

--approximately as long as my questions. I don't think there are many stakeholders—in fact, I don't think there are any—who would say that CCL hasn't done a fabulous job. If you need more information, you might build onto them.

In fact, there's a former senior person from Statistics Canada who indicated that it would cost them $25 million over and above CCL to do the kind of work that CCL was doing. That doesn't make any economic sense.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

There's a question of quality, there's a question of quantity, and there's a question of relevance. Many of the employers with whom we spoke, many of the people who use learning information to formulate their plans for their industry, their sector, and their educational institution, wanted a more global perspective. They indicated that to us.

We have been and are working with the provinces and territories to develop information and information sources that will meet the needs better than they were being met.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

When do you expect that you would have a new CCL?

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

Well, we're not looking to make a new CCL, as you put it. What we're looking for is timely, responsive labour market information--

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

When will you have that? You've cancelled this.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

--and that's not a simple process. Nor may it be just one program or organization; it may be a series of them. That's what we're discussing. We're looking at all the alternatives at this point.