Evidence of meeting #36 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was families.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:25 a.m.
Bloc
November 30th, 2010 / 10:25 a.m.
As an Individual
The problem with Bill C-14 is that it was supposed to make it equitable and faster to come home with your adopted child from another country and have the citizenship automatically. Some people are choosing not to go that route, and there are two reasons. One is that there's a possibility of not getting through. People stall in other countries for a long time in not being able to get the automatic citizenship. So some people would choose to adopt by the old way and go the permanent residency route instead. Some people are advising that people should go that way instead.
The second reason is that the automatic citizenship means that for internationally adopted children, if they live outside the country as adults and have children, their children won't be able to be Canadian citizens. This was something that totally caught everybody off guard when it happened. It was completely another issue and was entirely caught up in a different problem, and adopted children got caught in it. Our joy over Bill C-14 turned to dismay, although we were extremely happy over the deportation provision that it brought in so that criminality couldn't be a reason for sending them away afterwards.
10:30 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Candice Bergen
Thank you very much, Ms. Ross.
We'll go to Mr. Martin, please.
10:30 a.m.
NDP
Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON
Thank you very much.
Thanks for coming this morning. I've learned quite a bit again at this panel, as we always do. I have only five minutes to focus on one particular thing, but I'd like to ask a lot of questions.
We heard again that there are 30,000 adoptable children, and we heard there's no registry, and we're trying to figure out where all that's at. We also heard a lot of myths and fears around adoption.
I'm particularly interested, Julia, in your presentation, because I'm not sure we're going to get another one similar to yours before us in this study. I want to know a little bit about the whole issue of LGBT families trying to adopt. We're looking for families, and we're looking for security for children. We have some families now that want to adopt under the LGBT framework. Maybe you can talk to us a little bit about some of the challenges there. We heard from Lauren about her going to school and some of the misinformation and myths and fears there. There have to be some in your experience as well, so maybe you can talk about that.
10:30 a.m.
As an Individual
Thank you.
The first relates to the way employment insurance is defined for us. If you take the example of my family, which has two mothers, out of the gate, with adoption, the maternity benefit is not allowed. So when you're dealing with employers, it becomes very difficult, when you don't have the top-up, for both parents to be able to be mothers and have that experience. That's one area where there is a struggle.
But if you move even beyond that, when you have a same-sex family with two fathers, maternity leave isn't even an option. By virtue of gender, they are already able to take only parental leave, despite having the same needs.
Systemically, that's one area where, when you look at the way HRSDC currently interprets the employment benefit clauses, that interpretation, as written, pertains to mother and father. The way we try to read the law and read the way it applies to us, it's very hard to identify and figure out where we fit.
In terms of our ability to adopt in Ontario, it is a fairly progressive system, and Ottawa has one of the best records. Of 96 public adoptions made the year before last, one-third were to LGBTQ families. Our experience there has been very positive.
The challenge in post-adoption support is that we simultaneously become advocates in the education system and in the medical system for our children's needs while we are also trying to advocate around the fact that our children may not have a mother and a father and may come from a same-sex family. With older children, the additional challenge is that you may be adopting children with needs who have been in a foster system and may have been enculturated in a way that's not necessarily open-minded to living with same-sex parents. So not only do you have the predominant issue of attachment that comes with being a child in care, but you have the issue of their dealing with their own internalized homophobia, while you're trying to love them and give them stability.
How to deal with those challenges, for us, is a very real issue that has been heard as a need in post-adoption support, specifically for the LGBTQ community .
10:35 a.m.
NDP
Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON
Is there a package anywhere that we can include in our report that some group has put together that indicates specifically what pieces of legislation need to change, for example, to make it more equitable so that the discrimination doesn't happen?
10:35 a.m.
As an Individual
There isn't, to my knowledge, with the exception of Toronto's 519, which has extensive resources on adoption issues related specifically to the LGBTQ population.
10:35 a.m.
As an Individual
It's the 519 Community Centre, which is part of Rainbow Health in Toronto.
10:35 a.m.
As an Individual
Yes, specifically, Rachel Epstein, a researcher based with the 519 Community Centre, has recently completed a great deal of research across Canada about the impact of being an LGBTQ adoptive parent.
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you to our panellists for appearing today. Thank you very much for your testimony and your specific recommendations. You're doing a very good job in terms of equipping the committee to consider how the federal government can play a supportive role with respect to adoption.
We've heard a number of panellists in our hearings so far who have recommended, in one way or another, that the federal government take some sort of leading role with respect to promoting adoption, if you will. I suspect that any type of adoption promotion would need supporting infrastructure behind it to ensure that adoption is indeed viable. We've heard that we have 13 jurisdictions that deliver adoption services. There are a variety of differences in the baskets of services, from pre- through post-adoption, across the country.
I have two questions. First, can you identify for us where--that is, in which province or territory or province--there are some best practices or supports provided that we should be looking at?
Second, would you support a relevant federal minister meeting with his or her provincial and territorial counterparts with the aim of working cooperatively to sort of raise the basket of services in all provinces, if those provinces want to participate that way, I suppose? Should some dialogue begin that way?
I'll leave it at those two questions to start.
Ms. Ross.
10:35 a.m.
As an Individual
Yes, in looking across Canada there's a great deal of support for and knowledge about fetal alcohol spectrum disorder out west, and Alberta is a province with a lot of support. I would like to say that HRSDC originally did have a role in interprovincial adoption--that was in the 1980s. That department could play a very good role in working with the directors of child welfare and getting knowledge from the provinces out there.
I know this department did bring together international adoption researchers a few years ago and it would be something that they could expand their role to do. The Public Health Agency of Canada is another one that could extend it somewhat because it works in FASD nationally. It could extend its mandate to do something about getting the provinces together. There's a lot of knowledge out there.
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
10:35 a.m.
As an Individual
The answer is yes. That's one of the recommendations I have in my full text. In fact, I've had a meeting with Scott Reid, who is my member of Parliament, who's making arrangements to meet with his MPP to talk about this very issue at ground zero. I fully endorse that type of dialogue.
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
We've heard some talk about research and data collection.
Ms. Clemenger, do you want to weigh in on this one? You had a few more things you wanted to say about this. I'm going to presume there's a role for the federal government.
I asked our officials, by the way, who appeared at this committee not long ago, if they could tell us, with respect to international adoption, whether the countries that had their own internal adoption processes--with the greatest amount of integrity--were well aligned or not with domestic demand for international adoption. They couldn't even tell me basic things like that. There are no longitudinal long-range studies about any of this.
Do you want to jump in on this?
10:40 a.m.
As an Individual
Categorically, it doesn't seem that adoption or fostering is on anybody's planning and priorities, internally, from what I can tell. When I asked the human resources department, I wanted to ask them two things. One was, are you collecting the information categorically...the word “adoption”? I asked for access to information using the word “adoption”, the word “fostering”. Then secondly, I wanted to know, if they were collecting the information, was it getting to the decision-makers--yourselves? The answer is no.
Actually, I asked the human resources department for Monte Solberg's briefing manual, for anything in his briefing manual that might have told the minister responsible for HRSDC what's going on in fostering, adoption, domestically, and the answer was there's nothing in his briefing manual. So how do you do what you're doing without studies like this? One of my recommendations is that it goes broader.
I went to Health Canada. Health Canada said, “Well, we don't collect data that way. Thank you very much. Could you please go to the provinces?” I went to six provinces with the same question, the same request: can I see what's in the briefing manual for ministers responsible for this? Alberta came back. That was the most startling. After a series of dialogues with Alberta, they essentially said, “We do collect the information. Here's some of it. In terms of having access to the information on how we brief the minister responsible in Alberta...”--yabba, yabba, yabba--“...national security.” They refused to give me that information.
At that point, I thought this is absolutely nuts that, categorically, your people, our people, are not collecting the data domestically. Secondly, if they do have it, they're not even briefing.... Does the Prime Minister of Canada even know there are 30,000 kids out there? This is a burden that I share, my daughter shares. I think, are you getting it at the top?
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Candice Bergen
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Watson; that's all the time you have.
That certainly confirms, even with our analysts trying to put information together for this study, that there really is no information for them. We absolutely can confirm what you're saying.
We don't have time for another round of questions. I know Mr. Moore wanted to add something. Then I hope we have just a moment, because I want Ms. Ross, with the permission of the committee, to quickly brief us on her seventh recommendation. She didn't get to the last part.
Mr. Moore, perhaps you could have your comment very quickly.
10:40 a.m.
As an Individual
Just to Mr. Watson's question, I think that promotion and advertising about adoption is very important. I hope the committee would consider that as part of the recommendations.
The other thing around international adoption that may be considered is having pre-approval from foreign governments for adoption for Canada. If you're adopting from the U.S.--or there are a lot in China, South Korea, or in our case, South Africa--if there is a possibility of having a bilateral relationship or a pre-approved adoption process between governments, between states, that may help to expedite the process.
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Candice Bergen
Thank you very much.
Ms. Ross, did you want to give us that seventh recommendation you had?
