Human Resources Committee on Dec. 2nd, 2010

[Cindy Xavier]

The average cost of adoption? I do not know. Sorry.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Okay.

Ms. Smith, how many jurisdictions deliver adoption in the United States? Is it each state individually, or within states is it county by county? Give us a snapshot of what that looks like.

[Susan Smith]

Each state differs. In some states, like California, it's county-based and each county sets its own subsidy, its own policies, etc. There is a state adoption program administrator in every single state, and the federal government brings them together to discuss issues, problems, and solutions.

But the states vary, and within the states certain native American tribes have their own child welfare systems. And then there is Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands. Those are U.S. territories. So some states are county-based, some are state-based, and there are the tribal entities and territories. I don't know how to count it.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Let me come back to our Canadian witnesses for just a second. I'll be right back with you in a moment, Ms. Smith.

Ms. Xavier, I just want to clarify something. Your brief notes that you support an adoption leave benefit. I believe Mr. Lessard asked whether you would support increased parental leave, which is different. I just want to clarify what your position is—an additional benefit beyond parental that would be specific to adoption?

[Cindy Xavier]

To adoption, yes.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

That would presumably have to be based on how the courts have ruled on maternity on unique characteristics to adoptive moms or adoptive dads.

Can any of our witnesses talk about some of those, including Ms. Smith? What are some of the psychological stressors or other issues--not attachment issues with the child or care of the child, but issues the parent will face in adoption?

We'll start with you, Ms. Smith, and maybe the panellists can weigh in on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

All of you have about one minute, so just take 30 seconds.

[Susan Smith]

One of the first challenges is understanding the needs of your child and being able to meet them as the child develops. This runs the gamut from emotional conflicts the child has related to being separated from a birth family to various kinds of developmental challenges based on--

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Ms. Smith, I'm asking about what the parent faces. Are there rejection issues for moms? What types of issues do they face, not what their child faces?

[Susan Smith]

I think parental stress is the biggest one. Any parent who has a heavy role in caretaking when you have a child.... I've interviewed adoptive parents who say “We have five adopted children with special needs. It's a rare week when we don't get calls from the schools telling us to come and get one of our children.”

There is ongoing stress. There is not knowing if you're doing the right thing. There is a feeling of hopelessness that you can't give your children what they need. It's a matter of emotional overload for some of these parents. That component has to be factored in.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Are there parents who fail to attach?

[Susan Smith]

Parents who fail to attach? Attachment is not yes or no; there are degrees. And there are parents, when they have children, who keep doing a push-pull, who will seek affection and then reject it, who reach a point that they don't understand this, and feel it's their fault. They in some ways feel that they've failed, and then they don't want to invest any more. There are struggles in parents related to attachment, especially with kids who resist it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thank you very much for that.

We're going to try to do a very quick three-minute round, so again it will probably be one question and one answer.

Mr. Savage, did you have a question you wanted to ask?

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you.

Thank you all for coming. It's been very helpful.

I wanted to ask Ms. Smith a question. You talked about the interstate agreement on adoptions in the United States and how that helped. Do you have some advice for Canada? We're hearing up here from a lot of people that it's easier to go outside of Canada to adopt than to adopt inside of Canada because of provincial issues. Do you have any advice about how we might implement a better system?

[Susan Smith]

Sure. You can take a look at the parts of this agreement and decide which would work for you and which might not. Generally, if you have a child in Idaho who has an aunt in Tennessee who is willing to parent that child, but you can't do a home study from Idaho to Tennessee, as a courtesy, the state and the family state will do the home study, and once a placement is made, they will provide ongoing supervision for that placement.

Every state does it for every other state. For some of them, it's just a matter of being across the border. There are states that are side by side, and there are certain arrangements. In 2006 the federal government passed an interstate bill that set some time limits. They said you had only two months to do the home study. You know, with some states it would be at the bottom of their list of things to do, and it might take six months to get this home study done. Basically, the federal government stepped in and said we need reasonable timeframes for this.

That compact was the first thing the federal government did in the early 1960s. It's kind of like a treaty for which you develop this agreement, and states have to say yes, we will participate in this. State by state, they signed on.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Chair, that's something we should probably have more information on. Maybe we could get our researchers to get some information on that interstate agreement in the U.S.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Yes, I agree.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you for that, Ms. Smith.

I wanted to ask Ms. Xavier a question. You said you'd like to see changes made to the Department of Citizenship and Immigration call centre and website for prospective adoptive parents. You talked about more inter-country information being posted. Can you chat a little bit about what you'd like to see on there that isn't on there now?

[Cindy Xavier]

Yes. In fact, through our organization and even at the ministry level, when we're giving information to parents, we actually more often.... Besides the Citizenship and Immigration piece, which they need to understand from our country's side, the U.S.-based website is very comprehensive when it comes to information about the countries and the relationships between the countries and our provinces and country. Those are always flexing and changing. It's very difficult to keep up with those, in addition to actually understanding the entire process.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thank you.

Mr. Vellacott, you have three minutes.

[Maurice Vellacott, Conservative, Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK]

I think Cindy was champing at the bit to answer the question that Ms. Smith had responded to about the unique things that adoptive parents face, so I want to give her an opportunity in a moment for that as well.

Can you tell me again so I can understand--you know I'm from Saskatoon--if the Adoption Support Centre of Saskatchewan is funded by the province?

[Cindy Xavier]

Yes, we are. We are a registered non-profit charity, but we are funded through the Ministry of Social Services.

[Maurice Vellacott, Conservative, Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK]

Are you funded entirely by them?

[Cindy Xavier]

Yes.

[Maurice Vellacott, Conservative, Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK]

In our province it's mostly a public adoption system, and there are what, two or three private adoption agencies?