Human Resources Committee on Feb. 7th, 2023

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

I don't have the timeline. It has to be done properly.

We made a down payment on our commitment to modernize when we tabled the board of appeal legislation last fall, when we increased EI sickness benefits from 15 weeks to 26 weeks and when we committed in last year's budget to extend the seasonal worker pilot, but we know that we can't.... It's not best for the system to make piecemeal reform. It all has to fit together, and that's what we're working on doing.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Madam Minister, it is essential that the system be modernized if we want to provide a safety net. The EI system is the best economic stabilizer in a crisis.

I just want to remind you that people pay premiums. In addition to paying premiums, some people do not have access to benefits because the eligibility rules are too rigid. Also, those who are entitled to receive their benefits wait months and months.

There is an absolute need to modernize the system. I think you know that. It takes political will. There was a commitment made in 2015, another commitment in 2019, and another commitment in 2021, in the mandate letters of the respective ministers.

You always tell us that indeed it needs to be modernized, that you are committed to it, and that you will work on it. However, there are no real horizons. That is what we are asking you for, Madam Minister, and we are anxious to hear the answer.

Last week, at the Canada Employment Insurance Commission's Workers' Commissioner's Forum, workers' groups were disappointed, too, that they had no response after being consulted.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

We'll go now to Madam Zarrillo for six minutes.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I did want to ask the minister about the line on technology updates, the $16.3 million she referenced earlier, but before I get into that, I just want to comment.

I have appreciated the minister's commitment to equity and equality, and that includes in employment, but there is one area of the economy—of workers—that hasn't had the respect or the recognition that it deserves, and that's the care economy. These are workers such as personal support workers, long-term care workers and child care workers. We know that we are going to need a lot more professional carers in the new child care program.

Really, Minister, this is gender discrimination. Since the beginning of time, the burden of the economy, the care portion of the economy, has always fallen on women. They've never gotten the respect and the pay they deserve.

I just want to point out, Minister, that a report came out of this committee just yesterday that talks about investments in the care economy. My question to you is in relation to the need for more investment in the care economy and in future skills and labour needs. There is a recommendation there, “Recommendation 3”, which talks about “supporting a wide range of strategies to make training in care-related fields more accessible”—training options like “microcredentials” and “upskilling options” and those sorts of things.

I want to elevate it here, Minister, and I want to hear from you. Is this getting increased exposure? How can we get this increased exposure as we think about training for the future?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

First of all, congratulations on the tabling of that report. It's really important that we have the conversations around the care economy, framed as it has been in the work that all of you have done. Again, congratulations.

What we've been doing at ESDC—and I'll ask officials to chime in—is really putting a health care-care economy lens as a priority as we've rolled out, particularly postpandemic but during the pandemic as well, whether it's a sectoral workforce solutions program, the health care-care economy as a priority or foreign credential recognition.

We just closed a call for proposals specifically related to credentialing of care workers. We are working on our commitments around personal support workers, to which I'm sure someone in the room there can add a bit more detail. For ECE workers, our child care agreement with every province has commitments embedded in terms of the training and the work conditions for early childhood educators. Then, of course, there are the commitments to age at home and to have dignity in long-term care.

I would say that all of this is coming together because of the evolution of the way we talk about and value care work, driven by a lot of the work that all of you have been doing, but that has been happening across the country. As someone who has worked in the disability space for so very long, it's a very exciting framing to the conversation because it adds such a significant amount of respect and dignity.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

I look forward to more coverage of that in the media, and more talk about the care economy as a key and integral part of the economy.

I want to go back to the supplementary estimates on technology updates. This is something you and I have spoken about in the past, even in relation to Bill C-22—how that benefit will be expressed into the community and how technology needs to be able to underpin that.

Could you expand more on the $16.3 million, and what projects are being undertaken?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

I have a long explanation here, but I feel there is somebody who can more succinctly answer this for me. I will pass it to J.-F. and the team.

[Jean-François Tremblay]

Thank you, Minister.

It's what we call the “technology debt”, in this case. It's not necessarily about developing new projects. As you know, we have OAS, CPP and EI, and they all run on really old IT systems.

We have a panel replacing this with a new system. At the moment, we need to stabilize the existing system to make sure it continues to work appropriately. In 2021, we got funding: $469 million over six years.

This year, some of that money comes from the CRF, and some of it comes from the EI account, for example. This is the portion coming from the CRF. The only objective is to stabilize the existing system. This could mean, for example, making sure they update the infrastructure and that it will actually work over the next five to 10 years.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I have a follow-up question, then: Will that legacy technology affect or limit the rollout of the Bill C-22 benefit?

[Jean-François Tremblay]

No, we have a plan for Bill C-22. That won't affect it. All of those things are taken into account.

In this case, it's in the context of EI, OAS and CPP—making sure the existing systems are stabilized. Those are systems we can play with. We have shown that in the past. It's just that they are quite old, so we need to make sure they continue to exist, before they become unusable for some of our old programs.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Zarrillo. That concludes your six minutes.

I'll now go to Madam Gray for five minutes.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, in 2017, there was a review done of the Social Security Tribunal by KPMG. Was an RFP put out for firms to conduct the review, or did KPMG receive a sole-source contract?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

I will ask officials whether they can answer that or provide the information afterwards.

[Jean-François Tremblay]

I don't have the answer to that. I'm sorry. We can check.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you.

I would like that information to be tabled for this committee, please. If there was an RFP, table a copy for this committee—what the RFP was.

Minister, can you tell us what the dollar value of the KPMG contract to do this review was?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Do you mean from 2017—the same contract?

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Yes.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

I don't have that information now, but we can get it for you.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you.

Could you table a copy of that information for the committee?

Are you able to provide a copy of the contract with KPMG to conduct the review?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

J.-F., can we provide the contract?

[Jean-François Tremblay]

We will see what can be provided, and we will provide it.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you.

The Canadian government has a contract strategy. For the Social Security Tribunal review, was a review of the statement of work done by the comptroller general?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Again, we will have to get that information for you.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

Part of the role of a department is to prepare a statement of work using performance specifications, whenever possible. Was a statement of work done for this review?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Again, I think so, but I would not—