Human Resources Committee on Nov. 27th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Ferreri and Madame Despaties.

Mr. Long, go ahead for five minutes, please.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, Ms. Despaties and Ms. Morel. Thank you for your testimony this afternoon on this important private member's bill.

I'm thrilled about what's happening, obviously, with MP Falk's Bill C-318, and I am thrilled to see this in the FES, the fall economic statement. I know through social media.... I believe you had a meeting with Minister Boissonault. Ms. Morel, I believe you also had a meeting with the minister.

[Anne-Marie Morel]

No, we did not have a meeting at the federal level, because our efforts were concentrated on the Quebec side of things.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Okay.

Ms. Despaties, you had a meeting. Can you share your thoughts with us about that meeting and about seeing it in the FES?

[Julie Despaties]

Meeting with any minister is always an honour and a privilege, because we know that the work we're doing to bring forward change is important and requires a lot of time. We had a good meeting. We were surprised and extremely happy to know there is more commitment and support to see this bill come through.

At the end of the day, our only focus is on seeing children and youth benefit from more time to attach with their families, period.

We were delighted. We're hopeful that, at every level, this government will be putting this bill through.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Ms. Morel, can you speak to our committee about how important and meaningful it was to see this included in the fall economic statement?

[Anne-Marie Morel]

Even though it's now a done deal for Quebec parents, we definitely feel solidarity with all adoptive families. We were in the same situation, and so we know what that represents. We think that all children in Canada, and all families, deserve to have a measure of that kind introduced. We were accordingly very pleased to hear about this. We are here today to support Adopt4Life and all other adoptive families in Canada. By adopting this measure, you will really be changing their lives.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you.

Ms. Despaties, can you speak about how important it is to access the benefits we're including in the FES before the arrival of the child?

[Julie Despaties]

Again, I believe Mr. Angus was asking about the time we get the call.

Sometimes, for example, we have to commute back and forth. We were based in Toronto, and our children were in the London area. Every weekend, we commuted back and forth. This was for a period of two or three months before they moved in.

Technically, that could be helpful, obviously. It could be helpful for international adoptions and for families adopting privately.

Yes, it is important, but I also believe it is available in the parental leave.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

How long have you been advocating these changes?

[Julie Despaties]

A year after we grew our family through adoption, I started Adopt4Life. That was the first mandate the community we spoke to asked us for. We officially began publicly advocating in 2018. We have met with several parties and have received the endorsement of everyone, and employers as well. Everybody is in support of this.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you.

I will ask you one final question.

Can you speak, in 30 seconds or so, about how important and meaningful this will be to adoptive parents and how it will change how they go forward?

[Julie Despaties]

Having enough time to attach to your child and giving your child enough time to bond with you.... It's the most important time.

Truly, for me, as an adoptive mom, I spent—I don't know—six months teaching phonetics to my son. I was the Frenchie mom to an English kid. He didn't think I could teach him, but I did. He said to me, “How come you're the one who taught me this?” I said, “Because you needed the commitment and time of one parent who could do this for you.”

This is what giving enough time to family means.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you.

Ms. Chabot, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair, and I don't want to interrupt Ms. Chabot mid-questioning.

I want to bring up the point you made earlier regarding routine motions. I want to bring to your attention and to the committee's attention that routine motions passed by the committee on December 13, 2021, guarantee each party “time for questioning”.

A member has the right to move a motion whenever they have the floor, which triggers a debate on the motion. As debate on the motion is not spent questioning the witnesses. It cannot be counted against questions, which are guaranteed to each party. Therefore, the chair must uphold the member's right to ask questions for the allotted time to their party during routine motions.

I wanted to bring that forth, Mr. Chair, for your consideration moving forward on motions coming forward, because that wasn't how we followed the process for today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Gray.

I will take that under consideration and report back to the House.

Go ahead, Ms. Chabot.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Morel, can you talk to us about your own and your group's background in terms of arguments to promote the cause of adoptive parents in Quebec?

What pitfalls did you encounter and what factors eventually helped to win the battle?

[Anne-Marie Morel]

Gladly.

The line of argument that was blocking any progress was really the fear of possible legal action from biological parents who had not understood that it was important for adoptive families to have an equivalent form of leave. Nothing like that ever happened. On the contrary, the many petitions launched in Quebec were supported by thousands of Quebeckers. People understood perfectly well that adoption was a complex situation with its own specific challenges. Indeed, children put up for adoption had experienced neglect, violence, and malnutrition, even while still in the womb. They were children who were not always wanted and who still may have had anything but optimal living conditions. People are well aware of that.

From our standpoint, we acknowledged that it was important to protect maternity leave for women and paternity leave for fathers. However, there was really another measure required to respond to other needs. Nothing was taken away from others. We simply added what was needed to ensure that all children in Quebec had the same rights, including being able to have a parent at home for a year.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

You yourself are a member of an adoptive family and you represent a lot of parents. Can you tell us about your support work with parents?

[Anne-Marie Morel]

We are there to help even before adoption takes place to ensure that people properly understand what attachment is. These days, fortunately, adoptive parents no longer do things blindly. They have access to documentation. There's no guidebook explaining exactly how to become a parent, but we do provide a lot of information. They can also meet other adoptive parents. It has been scientifically demonstrated that it's helpful for adoptive parents to know they aren't alone and that others have gone through what they are about to experience, which can be the best possible form of support.

We prepare parents upstream. Adoptive parents may have to wait a long time, but the child can arrive at a moment's notice. We also coach them after the child has arrived.

As I mentioned earlier, since 2021, I have received almost no calls from distressed parents who, although they feel that their child is not ready, regrettably need to be sent to child care because they have to return to work. For us, these 18 weeks of leave, the counterpart of the 15 weeks you are requesting here, were a game-changer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

We'll go to Mr. Angus to conclude. You have two and a half minutes.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to our speakers.

In my previous round of testimony, I felt it necessary to put on the record the dark side of how adoption was used as a policy that still impacts our region, the indigenous communities in Treaty 9, because those policies were adopted at committees like this. When we put policy in place, I think we always have to have that frame of what the unintended consequences are. However, in saying that, I also feel I'm hearing a very heroic story of people stepping up with love, and this is a beautiful story, and so we need to make sure that our policies reflect that.

I certainly know many young people—in fact, some very close family members—who were raised through adoption and who've become extraordinary, loving and caring, but they need those role models, and your story and Madam Morel's stories are really moving.

I would like to ask you in my final few minutes, Madame Despaties, in terms of the support that you can give to other would-be parents, is that what your organization does? If someone decides they're going to take on a child with special needs, someone with multiple issues who's 10 or 12 years old and in and out of the foster care system, what kind of support is there, not just for the child but for the adult?

[Julie Despaties]

Absolutely. Adopt4Life's purpose is truly to break isolation, to make sure that from the moment you embark on your journey to grow your family through adoption to the moment you're presented a profile, and then you're parenting, we're there all along the way.

We help provide peer support. We break down isolation. We help identify resources. We advocate. We raise awareness in the school and in the communities. We just walk alongside because we believe that together we're stronger, and that we can uplift, celebrate the greats, and provide support when we're in distress.

Parenting is unique and challenging, but parenting through adoption and permanency is something that is quite different, and many people just don't understand, so we shed a light on that. Among us, we are able to really understand. We say it takes a village; I actually think it takes a country to come together in supporting families through permanency.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you for that.