Human Resources Committee on March 23rd, 2026

[The Chair (Robert Morrissey (Egmont, Lib.)), Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 29 of the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, February 4, 2026, the committee is meeting on Bill C-222.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application.

Before we begin, I would like to ask all persons in the room to consult the note that's in front of you.

The clerk has advised me that those participating virtually have been sound tested.

You have the option of choosing to participate in the official language of your choice. If you're in the room, please select the channel for the language you wish to participate in. If there is an interruption in the interpretation, please get my attention and we'll suspend while it is being corrected. I would also like to remind everyone to please wait until I recognize you by name before you speak. As well, those in the room, please put your devices in silent mode, and please refrain from tapping the boom, for the benefit of the interpreters.

This afternoon on Bill C-222, an act to amend the Employment Insurance Act and the Canada Labour Code regarding the death of a child, I would like to welcome our witnesses. Appearing as an individual, we have Ms. Briana Koop, and Gabriel Pelletier, a lawyer representing the Comité Chômage du Haut-Richelieu et du Suroît. Each of you has five minutes for opening statements.

We'll begin with Ms. Koop for five minutes, please.

[Briana Koop, As an Individual]

Good afternoon. My name is Briana Koop. I am incredibly grateful to be here speaking to you today as a bereaved parent, so thank you to Blake Richards.

Learning to navigate the world as a bereaved parent wasn't something that I ever thought I would be forced to do. It wasn't a possibility I had considered, even though if I had, I don't think there's anything that could have prepared me for the enormity of the burden.

In August 2013, I was standing in front of a clearance rack flipping through the skeletal remains of that summer's hottest trends, but it wasn't deals I was searching for. I was there because my toddler wanted to go to the park and I had nothing to wear. You see, I had given birth to my son, Marlow, only a few days earlier and the only clothes that I had that fit were maternity clothes.

I'm sure that most of you can understand this struggle even if you haven't experienced it yourself. We know that bodies change with pregnancy and childbirth, and even if we eventually do fit back into the clothing we wore before, we know it takes time. Even if we don't experience these changes ourselves, it's easy to understand them because we can see them happening to people around us. When my daughter was born just two years earlier, instead of worrying about buying clothing that would fit during that transition period, I did what most people do and continued to wear my maternity clothing. I made do.

But this time was different. This time, those maternity clothes with their strategically added panels and conspicuously large elastic waistbands were not only a poor fit on my postpartum body, they were a constant, brutal reminder that my son had died.

My son died of kidney failure within hours of his birth. The fact that I didn't have a newborn to care for didn't change the reality that I had just given birth. My body needed time to heal. Even though it seemed like a miracle that day that I wanted to do something as mundane as taking my daughter to the park when she asked me, my wanting to wasn't going to make my body bounce back and fit into my prepregnancy summer clothes.

No matter how much I wanted to in those early weeks, I couldn't change my body any more than I could have stopped the tears from joining the blood and the milk from flowing when the young woman who worked at the store walked up and asked if I was looking for anything in particular.

This is just a tiny example, the smallest glimpse into the impossibility that is learning to navigate life without our babies in those early days, weeks and months. Yes, we do learn, but learning takes time—time and practice and trial and error.

Even though there is nothing you can do in this room or in any other room to take away the anguish the grieving parents experience, as you move forward with this bill, I hope that you don't underestimate the impossible weight of those early days, weeks and months.

As I was preparing for today, figuring out what I wanted to say, what I could say to help you understand what it's like, I started reading through what was a baby book and became a journal. I came across a passage that I would like to end my time here by sharing with all of you:

7 weeks and 6 days. That’s how much time has passed since I last held my son. 8 weeks ago today I was in a hospital bed, waiting: waiting for my labour to progress. For my cervix to dilate. Waiting to give birth and meet my baby. Waiting to find out if I was carrying a daughter or a son…

Waiting to say goodbye.

I would have given anything to stop that moment from coming. But it did—of course it did. It's the one thing we can be absolutely sure of—time, as they say, marches on.

While I held Marlow, all I wanted was for time to stop, or at least for it to drag its heels and give me just a few more moments with my son.

But it didn’t. Of course it didn't.

The hours we spent getting to know every inch of his tiny, perfect body sped by. Time is funny like that; it seems like I had only just found out I was pregnant, and now suddenly, he's gone.

It's ironic, actually, because now I guess I've gotten my wish, because time drags.

Each day seems longer than the last, and already it feels an eternity since I kissed my sweet boy. And though the pain is still almost as fresh as the day he was born, the memory of my time with him is fading. I can no longer conjure his scent at will or picture his pouty bottom lip without some effort, small as it may be. Time may heal all wounds, but it is also a thief.

There is one moment, though, that hasn’t begun fading. I remember that moment—my last moment with my son—the very last one—so vividly.

As I began leaving the room, I handed Marlow to my nurse, and even though I knew he was nestled safely in her arms, I could not convince my hands to release him, or my lips to leave his sweet face. I kissed the top of his soft, cold head again and again, as tears poured down my face, across his, and onto the hands of my nurse.

My poor, sweet nurse.

...I looked up at my nurse and I saw that she was softly, silently weeping for us. Her eyes met mine and somehow I managed through the tears, “I know you will, but please be gentle with him. He’s so tiny and he won't have his mommy anymore.” She nodded and said, “I will. Of course.”

And that was it. My time with my son had come to an end.

And so, too, has my time with you here today.

Thank you all so much for being here and for doing everything in your power today and over the last so many years to help ease the impossible burden that parents like me are still facing every day.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Koop.

Monsieur Pelletier, go ahead.

[Gabriel Pelletier, Lawyer, Comité Chômage Haut-Richelieu et du Suroît]

Thank you for having me.

That was incredibly powerful testimony that we just heard.

I'd like to thank you for that.

That is one of the many voices that this committee has allowed to be heard. I think it is important to start by emphasizing the fact that the committee has given all the necessary space to parents in its study of the bill, because bereaved parents are the primary stakeholders.

I'd like to begin by thanking all the parents who have come to testify over the past few weeks, as well as the organizations that directly defend their rights or provide them with support. They have also appeared here and will be appearing a little later today.

These include the organization Les Perséides, which provides support to bereaved parents and will testify a little later today. They also include other Montreal organizations, such as Le Phare, Children and Families, which is a pediatric palliative care centre that also offers Le Phare's Lantern, a bereavement support program. That wasn't part of the presentation, but I think it's important to point it out. Thank you again.

My name is Gabriel Pelletier. I'm not a bereaved parent. I am a labour lawyer specializing in employment insurance. I am a lecturer in labour law at the college level, and I co-authored an essay on family caregivers in Quebec and Canada. The essay, called La proche aidance au chevet d'un système malade: Plaidoyer pour un Québec qui renoue avec ses solidarités, calls for renewed solidarity in Quebec to fix a sick system for caregivers.

Today, I represent the Comité Chômage du Haut-Richelieu et du Suroît, which is an organization active in the Richelieu and Suroît regions that helps people having trouble with employment insurance by collectively defending their rights through legal education, representation and advice. I would also like to take the opportunity to highlight the exceptional work done by France Robert and Nadia Morais, respectively the director and counsel of the Comité Chômage du Haut-Richelieu et du Suroît.

I won't beat around the bush: The reason our organization is here today is the study of Bill C‑222, which is an excellent bill. It's a great idea. The bill has a noble objective. The needs are real. You just heard that. You've been hearing it for several weeks. The mechanism chosen to address the problem is the right one. We think it's a simple, elegant mechanism that will really help. We agree that the last thing a bereaved parent needs is to get a notice of debt from the Canada Revenue Agency in the mail and have to contact a public servant to notify them of the death of their child. It's inhumane. No one deserves that.

In Quebec, this situation is already partly governed by the Quebec parental insurance plan, which already provides for an extension of the weeks of maternity benefits. The mechanism is appreciated and the program works well. However, that doesn't mean that our group doesn't also witness similar situations with bereaved parents in Quebec. That is the main reason we wanted to come and meet with you, to support the bill. It's a great bill. However, we would like to invite you to go a little further to cover a few more bereaved parents. Let me explain.

Since 2003, the employment insurance program has provided a number of benefits that can be termed caregiver benefits. They include the compassionate care benefit, which was brought in under a Liberal government, the caregiver benefit for critically ill and injured children, which was brought in under a Conservative government, and the caregiver benefit for adults, which was brought in, again, under a Liberal government. Caregiving is therefore a non-partisan concern. Clearly, each of the parties, including the Bloc Québécois and the New Democratic Party, has played its role in this area.

Currently, a parent who receives a family caregiver benefit for a critically ill child or a compassionate care benefit that is reserved for a caregiver who accompanies and supports a loved one at the end of life experiences exactly the same reality as the bereaved parent of a newborn. They have the same problem. If someone receives caregiver benefits for a critically ill child or compassionate care benefits, and their child dies while receiving those benefits, it's the same thing. They have to call to apply for the sickness benefit, they have to say that their loved one is dead and they often have to repay a debt to the Canada Revenue Agency. Of course, no one is going to call them within 24 hours of the death, which would be absurd. These people are in exactly the same situation, and we think that with a very simple amendment, which we propose in our brief, we would be able to apply the mechanism of maternity and parental benefits for parents of bereaved newborns to all parents who receive caregiver benefits for a child under 18.

I use the word “parents”, but the benefits are open-ended. The mechanism would also apply to grandparents, uncles, aunts, brothers and sisters, who qualify for the benefits. We're talking about approximately 10,000 applications a year. That's 0.005% of total EI claims. Of the 10,000 people, not all of them would be eligible under the amendment. However, for those who are, the difference would be huge. It's a fraction of a drop in the bucket, but it's one step further. I think we owe that to bereaved parents.

Thank you.

I will be pleased to answer your questions in English or French, as required.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Pelletier.

We will begin the first round of questioning with Mr. Richards for six minutes.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Airdrie—Cochrane, AB]

Thank you to both of you—particularly you, Briana—for the courage it must have taken to share that with this room. I'm sure it's not the first time you've shared it with a room like this one, but I just want to commend you for the courage it must have taken.

Your son was Marlow. Hearing you speak about Marlow, it's clear how much love he had to have felt in that short period of time you had with him. By doing what you're doing here today and otherwise, you're bringing an immense amount of purpose to his short life. He's going to help make a difference and ensure that other parents who go through what you had to go through don't have their grief added to by the government.

I know that won't take away any of the pain that anyone feels, but it certainly will help to make sure the government doesn't add more to it. I just want to commend your courage.

Despite having stories told like this one, when we brought forward motion M-110 a number of years ago now, it received a lot of resistance from the government at the time. We're at this place now—and it's a good place—where we have all parties in the House of Commons finally in agreement on making this happen.

I just want to give you a bit of an opportunity. I know you've been a part of providing support and advocacy to others in this situation. Do you want to talk a little bit about what some of that work has looked like?

[Briana Koop]

About a year after my son died, I met a woman named Jasmin Herchack in an online support group. She was also local to Saskatoon and she had lost her daughter, Jael, a few months before Marlow was born.

I don't know how many of you in the room are parents, but especially if you're the person who gives birth, there's a biological change. We are evolutionarily programmed to take care of this new life. Our bodies don't understand that they're gone. After Marlow was born, that energy that I should have been putting into raising him needed an outlet, so I did a fundraiser for our children's hospital and that's how we connected.

She was raising money for a CuddleCot, which is a cooling device. I mentioned my son's cold head because keeping their bodies cool allows us to spend some time with them without the decomposition process, to be frank. It just slows that process down.

We started with that. Empty Arms is the organization that we ended up starting. It's been running in Saskatoon since 2015. In our first year, we served seven families. Last year, I think it was well over 100; I don't remember. It's over 100 families every year just in labour and delivery. We do occasionally help pediatric families. We do things like help families make handprints and footprints. I did photography. I stepped away a couple of years ago for personal reasons. I had another loss and it just became overwhelming.

Watching families go through this.... It's amazing because I didn't think I could be.... You think that you're prepared for it after seeing it so many times, but explaining to families the process of picking up their child's ashes or getting a hold of their death certificate.... These are the things that, when you leave the hospital, nobody tells you how to do. Thankfully, now in Saskatoon there are resources for those families. Not every city has that. It's a lot of red tape.

I was speaking to Gabriel outside before about that morning when my daughter wanted to go to the park. It's amazing to just get up the energy to want to get out of bed, so tracking down a death certificate, sending it to the right department, being told that department didn't get it and it must be somewhere else, and then having to send it again....

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Airdrie—Cochrane, AB]

On that note, I want to give you an opportunity to speak to how much of a difference this would make. It's about taking away some of that need to deal with a heartless bureaucracy when you've experienced what you experienced. It's about having the benefit of some time on bereavement leave so you have time for the grief, rather than facing a financial decision of having to go back to work long before you're ready.

Speak from your own experience, or speak from the experiences of those you've worked with. Share with us how much of a difference that's going to make for families in this situation.

[Briana Koop]

I was self-employed afterwards. I didn't go back to work after my son was born. Nothing was the same for me after my son was born. Again, Empty Arms very quickly became a full-time job. I said, “job”, but it was volunteer work. I don't know what it would have done for me if I'd had more time, because I just took the time. I was privileged enough to be able to take that time.

I have seen families forced to go back to work, and it is devastating. I am not exaggerating when I say that sometimes I fear for the lives of friends who have to go back to work within weeks of losing a child. It is....

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Richards.

Thank you, Ms. Koop.

Madame Desrochers, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Caroline Desrochers, Liberal, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thanks very much to both of you.

Thank you so much, Briana, for sharing your story, for your courage and for helping other families going through that. It takes a lot of strength to be able to do that.

I never lost a child, but my very close friend lost her nine-year-old. I was the person at the hospital with her. I was the person who had to stay with him. There was no way that she was going to let him go, so her husband took her home, and I stayed with Tommy until it was time for him to be taken out of the room. Everything you shared today took me right back to that. I took time off from work to stay with her and navigate through all those steps—talking to her employer and her husband's employer. They were in disbelief over what had just happened.

Thank you for doing this and for being that strength for other parents.

As you said, Gabriel, it's a project that goes across party lines.

Thank you to Blake Richards, who worked on this before, and to the others who worked on this before. It's so important that we get this done, get it done right and get it done quickly. If there are things we need to add or expand on, we can do that afterwards. We need to do it as soon as possible.

Mr. Pelletier, do you want to tell us a bit about the impact of Bill C‑222? How will the bill change what parents experience in terms of red tape and things that should not be asked for but are? I'm wondering if you could tell us a little about that.

Is there anything else you want to add that you didn't have time to say earlier about your proposed amendment?

[Gabriel Pelletier]

Yes, certainly. Thank you for the opportunity.

Although we have the Quebec parental insurance plan, the fact remains that there are parents who call us about this, whether it's the Comité Chômage du Haut-Richelieu et du Suroît or other organizations that do the same thing.

It's been said over and over again that the last thing a parent needs is bureaucracy. It's also important to understand that asking a parent to send a death certificate in this context is an act of violence. I think it's important to use that word. It's also a bit of administrative violence for the Canada Revenue Agency to send a notice of debt, because, for purely administrative reasons, there may have been a week or two of overlap.

There's also something that adds to all the steps they have to take during that time. Everyone knows what it's like to lose a loved one. I have not experienced the loss of a child, but I have experienced the loss of a father at a very young age. You have to shop for funeral services, you have to call employers, you have to talk to the hospital, you have to retrieve personal belongings. If it happens at home, there are drugs or tools belonging to the hospital that are still in the house. The medical team will come and pick them up. These are people we have known for months. They're going to take their things and say good-bye.

I'm speaking for parents, but it's true for all caregivers as well. Health care workers become a bit like members of the community when they provide home support. Then, all of a sudden, they take the medical items and leave. It's hard. If we add to that the bureaucracy that comes with the issue of maternity and parental benefits, that's one more layer, one layer too many.

In terms of the amendment we're recommending, the basic idea is this. The employment insurance program has benefits for caregivers. These benefits are the same across Canada, including in Quebec. The bill provides a mechanism so that a claimant who receives parental benefits can, despite the death of the child, continue to receive the benefits to the end instead of having to apply for sickness benefits.

All we're asking is that we do the same for the critically ill child benefit and the compassionate care benefit where the loved one is a child under 18. Harmonize it with the Canada Labour Code and it's a done deal.

If you do that, you're helping thousands of parents of children under 18 who are eligible for these benefits. We're talking about a handful of people, but for those people, it's going to be huge.

[Caroline Desrochers, Liberal, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Desrochers.

Mrs. Larouche, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Koop, I want to add my voice to those of my colleagues to offer you my best wishes. Thank you for your powerful testimony, which really expressed how much grieving a child is an ordeal that no one should have to go through as a parent. Thank you very much.

I'm going to ask you a quick, more practical question.

You said you were self-employed. We know that self-employed workers are ineligible for many benefits, even employment insurance. They often fall into a grey area, without sufficient assistance to deal with life's challenges, such as the loss of a child. What should be improved for self-employed workers?

[Briana Koop]

That is definitely a question that a lot of people more qualified than me could answer. I honestly can't speak to the actual policy. In terms of what could be done for self-employed individuals, again, I had been working, but I wasn't going to be able to take the leave so I just didn't return to my place of employment. I transitioned to self-employment instead, so that I could go back to work at my own pace. That is why I ended up becoming self-employed. It ended up being a benefit for Saskatoon, because I had the time and resources to put into Empty Arms.

I wasn't self-employed before my loss, so I can't speak to that so much. I had planned to go on parental leave, but I didn't qualify for it.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Great. Thank you for that clarification.

Mr. Pelletier, you talked about your recommendation for an amendment. You explained it a little more in response to Ms. Desrochers's question in the previous round.

If this amendment to the bill does not pass, what will the consequences be? How important is the amendment?

[Gabriel Pelletier]

I think there are times in politics when things get done, and I think Bill C‑222 is an opportunity to address a lot of bereaved parents.

What I fear is that we will miss this opportunity to pass such an amendment, regardless of its wording. We don't give ourselves credit for having perfect wording. We know how hard it can be to get a bill before a parliamentary committee. We see that as the main risk. If we don't seize the moment now to also talk about caregiver benefits, which, as I told you, are accessible mainly to parents, other family members or loved ones, we won't seize it otherwise.

In addition, this is particularly important. Don't get me wrong, this is not a Quebec-Canada issue. That's not what I'm trying to say at all. However, the fact remains that the bill as it stands now will have little effect in Quebec, because we already have such a system.

Caregiver benefits, on the other hand, are Canada-wide. By passing this amendment, you can create a solution for bereaved parents across Canada who receive caregiver benefits for children under 18. We're talking about a measure that would apply to more parents in Canada and a significant proportion of parents in Quebec. I feel that this is our chance.

I would also like to say that, beyond my work as a lawyer, I have some expertise in caregiving. I co-wrote an essay on the issue with Maude Pelletier-Smith, who is like a sister to me.

What we are seeing, in fact, is that a fairly significant number of family caregivers are becoming poorer in these situations. Their impoverishment is compounded by the fact that, as with parental benefits, as soon as the child dies, they are no longer entitled to benefits. It's over. There are a lot of parents, by the way, who don't know that they can receive sickness benefits afterwards or who simply don't have the time or mental space to apply for them. That is quite normal, I think, because their grief is more than a full-time job at that point.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

I'll finish up. I'll come back to it later.

Mr. Pelletier, there are really things that need to be reformed in terms of employment insurance so that it is even more humane and respectful of people who are going through these ordeals.

[Gabriel Pelletier]

Absolutely, and it's refreshing to see a bill that has such strong support from both sides on an issue of EI reform. That's why we support it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mrs. Larouche.

Mr. Genuis, you have five minutes.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses.

I'm going to start by making a couple of comments about how we're going to proceed in terms of disposing of this bill. We've had some very good, constructive conversations with people in other parties in the intervening time here. To lay this out in advance, our position has been a desire to see the expansion of some aspects of this bill, including to cover a situation in which a parent dies as well, because this is also a case where, if someone's paid into the system and, all of a sudden, that beneficiary passes away, that can compound the grief with added financial hardship in that moment. This is something that we have a desire to put forward in the context of this discussion.

Having said that, we understand that every private member's bill potentially has a hard road to follow. It has to go through all of the steps. In the case of a private member's bill that spends money, there is a need for a royal recommendation, and we certainly want to maximize the chances of this bill getting that royal recommendation.

I think we have an understanding among parties that, instead of adding the element of continuation of parental leave in the event of the death of a parent to this particular bill, we will do some separate study of that issue while proceeding with this bill without any Conservative amendments.

I'm putting forward this motion seeking the unanimous consent of the committee on it, and this isn't a surprise to anybody. I think we're all on the same page here. I'm seeking unanimous consent for the following motion:

That the committee conduct a two-meeting study on the possibility of providing for the continuation of Employment Insurance (EI) parental leave in the event of the death of a parent who is an EI beneficiary; that the committee ask the Parliamentary Budget Officer to provide an analysis of the cost implications of such an extension before the study begins; that the committee invite the Parliamentary Budget Officer and government representatives to appear together as part of the study; that any additional witnesses be submitted to the clerk by Saturday, April 11, 2026; and that the motion moved by Garnett Genuis on Monday, March 9, 2026, regarding the expansion of the scope of Bill C-222, An Act to amend the Employment Insurance Act and the Canada Labour Code (death of a child), be deemed withdrawn.

That's the motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Do we have unanimous consent?

(Motion agreed to)

The committee will deal with that later, but there is unanimous consent, Mr. Genuis.

You still have two and a half minutes.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Great. Thank you.

With that motion being adopted, I want to be clear that we will not be proposing any amendments at the clause-by-clause stage. We hope to see this bill passed quickly. We'll continue to work in that spirit as we have. Obviously, we hope to see it get a royal recommendation as well.

Mr. Pelletier, I wonder if, in the time I have left, you could just share a little bit more about the interaction between the Quebec parental leave system and the national one. I think it's good to elucidate what kinds of leave apply in which cases, because my understanding is that, in Quebec, parental leave is managed at the provincial level. Quebec has opted out of the national system, but unemployment benefits are still handled through the national system. For compassionate leave or bereavement leave, this bill extends the parental leave system, so maybe you could just help us understand, for people living in Quebec, which system applies and to what extent parents in Quebec who are dealing with grief in different kinds of contexts are covered by each system.

[Gabriel Pelletier]

The Quebec system will continue to apply. The very small number of people in Quebec who actually benefit from the Canadian program would be, for example, people who currently work in Quebec but do not reside in Quebec. We're talking about a very slim minority.

How it works is that basically Quebec, as you said, chose to opt out. The EI program allows for a certain number of benefits—caregiving would be an example and parental would be another—under the condition that the Quebec program would, at the very least, be equivalent or more generous than the Canadian counterpart. At this moment, the Quebec program allows some help for bereaved parents but only through the maternity claim. What that means is that Quebec would possibly have to realign its program.

I say “possibly” because, as I said, the program in Quebec is more generous on other issues. We would have to see how Quebec would move. However, from what I understand of the bill, it would apply to both maternity and parental leave, which is not the case in Quebec, where it only applies to maternity leave except for a two-week period for paternity and parental.

That would be the distinction.