Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 7th, 2007

[Blair Wilson, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd just like to thank the witnesses, Mr. Sandhu, Ms. Figg, and Ms. Daley, for coming here today and talking about the important issues that we've been discussing here in the citizenship and immigration committee.

As has been mentioned, Canadians are proud of the international reputation Canada has had as a fair, just, and compassionate society. I believe this is reflected in our refugee protection and resettlement policies and procedures. Judging by your résumés, which are impeccable, I can see that we are being well served by representatives like yourselves. So I want to thank you for your hard work and your public service.

I have a few questions, though, just to discuss the issue with respect to the refugee board. I know my colleague, Andrew Telegdi, already mentioned the fact that the number of vacancies, with respect to members, has been growing, the size of the backlog has been growing, and it appears that the processing time has also been growing.

This has always been a challenge for the government of the day, but after the election of the new...or I should say after the election of the aging Conservative minority government, this problem seems to be exacerbated, and it's just getting worse and worse, with 45 vacancies in one department and 10 vacancies in the other.

I have two questions, and the first question is to Mr. Sandhu. Since being newly appointed, how many files or cases do you have to deal with on a monthly basis?

[Krista Daley]

Sorry, I wonder if we can clarify. Do you mean Mr. Sandhu, personally, as a decision-maker—

[Blair Wilson, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Yes.

[Krista Daley]

—or are you referring to his responsibility as a manager?

[Blair Wilson, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Under his control, how many people does he have reporting to him, and how many cases would he be dealing with on a monthly basis?

[Ken Sandhu]

Sir, the number of cases or files dealt with by members differs somewhat in the three regions. For example, the western region travels to other cities to do cases. Our average is between 15 to 20 per member, but this is subject.... I hadn't figured it out, but from what I know, we can deal or we do deal with about that many a month per member.

[Blair Wilson, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

And what would be the average time spent per member on that type of work log? Are they doing 40 hours a week, 50 hours a week?

[Ken Sandhu]

The members are certainly working full-time. Some, I will tell you, are working more than full-time.

It's a very demanding position. It's not something that can be dealt with in a passing manner, by anybody. You have to be completely focused. I have found, coming from other agencies, that this is one of the more demanding areas of work, in the sense that it's one of the best adjudicative agencies. Good adjudicators are very significant and important to the system.

I would say it's definitely a full-time, 40-plus hours a week job.

[Blair Wilson, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

What effect does the growing backlog and the increasing time commitment have psychologically on the individuals who realize they're trying to get through their case files as quickly as they can and be as fair and give good decisions, quality decisions, but at the same time knowing there is a growing backlog behind them? How does that psychologically affect the individuals?

[Ken Sandhu]

Let me say what I think. I've just come out from being a member. I was a member for three years.

But I'll ask Ms. Figg to respond to it as well.

From my point of view, the process is such that the member managers do not allow that pressure to bear on the members who are there. Nobody is saying that because there's a backlog you have to do more cases. Nobody said that to me. That is a management problem we face because we realize that with every delay, lives out there need to be accounted for.

But certainly as a member, I was never put under any pressure. My workload was not increased as a result of the backlog.

[Blair Wilson, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you.

Ms. Figg.

[Lois D. Figg]

Thank you.

I can tell you, in my region in Toronto, the members are typically assigned six cases a week and they typically finalize four a week. So they're hard-working members, professional to the bone. I would say they put in more than a 40-hour week, typically.

With respect to your question about, I would say, morale, I think it's a good question. Our members lived through the action plan, which occurred a few years ago, when our board was able to clear up a tremendous backlog. So they understand we're not in control of intake.

But we're a very professional organization. As Mr. Sandhu said, we're not expecting more of them. They give 100% and they always have, so there is not more pressure on them from that point of view. But of course they have great pride in the organization, so they want to see the organization be healthy as well.

I wouldn't say morale is a problem. As Mr. Sandhu has indicated, their managers are very aware and keeping close tabs on how members are feeling about their job, and we want to make sure our members are well and happy at all times.

[Blair Wilson, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Do I have time for one quick question?

I was wondering what systems are in place to ensure the consistency of decision-making.

[Ken Sandhu]

Mr. Chairman, we could spend a lot of time answering that one. But let me say very briefly that we use a number of tools to try to bring about consistency, one of which is to have sessions with the decision-makers, with the members, on where we see large differences or discrepancies in the rates of decision-making.

The consistency issue also is dealt with by making sure the information the members are given, on which they base their decisions, is consistent.

We did not have as consistent information in the past, only because each of the regional offices in the past had their own respective country packages. More recently, we have gone to a computerized system, and we're providing every member with the same set of information, so we expect the consistency to improve with that, including the fact that anything that's available in English must be available in French.

That's what we've been doing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you.

Mr. Karygiannis.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Good morning, and welcome to the committee.

Your résumés are impeccable, and I don't think there's any question as to your capacity to serve on the board; however, I do have a couple of questions. If you don't have the answers right now, maybe you can supply them to us in writing.

We've been told that there's a member shortage right now, Mr. Sandhu, in your region. Would you know how many members you need to have a complete complement?

[Ken Sandhu]

Yes, sir. In the refugee protection division, as I indicated, our approved complement is 127, and we currently have 82.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Are there any plans, Mr. Sandhu, that you are aware of, in the immediate future—let's say in the next month or two months—to fill those 45 vacancies?

[Ken Sandhu]

I understand, sir, that our chair—I don't know whether you know, but the minister announced confirmation of our interim chair just this week, and Mr. Brian Goodman has been confirmed in the position—discusses matters of appointment with the minister.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

You're not aware?

[Ken Sandhu]

In my capacity, I'm always keeping him informed, and we're discussing matters, and you know that there have been appointments in the last few weeks.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

What is your current inventory of cases—spousal, parental, and criminal, who we want to be out of Canada? Do you have any idea what the inventory is?

[Krista Daley]

Just to clarify, we don't have any information here on the immigration appeal division, which are your criminal and family sponsorship issues. The only information we have here is with respect to the refugee protection division. But if you would like, we could provide that information to you.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Please. I'd appreciate it.

The length of time for spousal appeals or parental appeals used to be anywhere between six months to a year and a half, when you were at full complement. How long does it take now for a spousal appeal, from the time somebody puts it in to the time it's finished?

[Krista Daley]

We can provide that information to you. Once again, we only have the refugee protection division.