Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 7th, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you, Mr. Komarnicki.

We'll go to Mr. Telegdi and Madame Faille.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

There is a built-in frustration in having to deal with stuff in government, particularly in this immigration and refugee division. The set-up under Brian Mulroney was a real mess. Then in a non-partisan fashion, we really fought, and it came from Conservative members, the New Democrats, and some Liberal members, and it was cleaned up. We had the backlog under control. We were going to improve the consistency of the decision-making we have to do, which is the refugee appeal division--that's the only time you're going to have consistency. Just like when you have the Federal Court, you have the Federal Court of Appeal that sets the rules for folks so the decision-making is consistent.

Then we get to the point where we're looking forward to getting six-month hearings. We're into a year and a half. A crisis was created by this government, and it is as frustrating as hell. I was frustrated when the Liberals weren't moving fast enough. It's so incredibly bothersome that we got to where we got, and we still have a vacancy of 45 members at the IRB. It's unconscionable.

We have criminals we cannot get rid of from this country because they cannot have hearings before the immigration appeal division. I shake my head, because the party opposite, the governing party, is big on law and order. Yet we can't deport criminals out of this country because of this. I really hope you get us those figures, and we're very much looking for criminality. This is a public safety issue for Canadians, and the Conservatives have to take responsibility for it.

We want the Minister of Public Safety to come to this committee, but he has never come. We have not had Stockwell Day, the Minister of Public Safety, who spends his time shovelling people out of the country, before this committee. His priority is undocumented workers who are contributing to the economy of this country, and he has been contemptuous of any effort we have made to try to get him in front of this committee.

Just yesterday, we passed a motion in the House, a motion of concurrence, that we put a halt to deporting undocumented workers. Surely to God.... I appeal to my colleagues on the other side of the table. When I was in the chair, I fought with all parties to get changes that were going to make the system better. It's just frustrating as hell to see this mess coming to us.

Ms. Figg, you mentioned that you were dealing with Vietnamese refugees. I'm not sure if you followed the work of the committee. We've been pushing for getting the few refugees from the Philippines into Canada so we could close the chapter, if you will, on the Vietnam War. Do you have any knowledge of that situation over there?

[Lois D. Figg]

I have very little knowledge. The time I was dealing with Vietnamese boat people was 1990-1994. I was working for the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees and representing them to the appellate-level refugee body, so I was dealing with people who had been denied refugee status at the first instance and acting as their representative on meritorious claims.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

The other issue I have is one that people keep bringing up all the time. I think if we're going to make a real change in the IRB in the long term, we're going to have to start looking at IRB members as we look at the judiciary. The judiciary have very difficult jobs, and once we make an appointment, they're there on a term of good behaviour, just as the judges are. If we want to give guidance, we do it through legislation; that way, we stop government interference. They're a very important institution in our country.

I know you're not going to be able to comment on that, but I just wanted to put that out to you, because I think that would really solve the problem in the long term.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you.

Madame Faille is next.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I just want to say that I too agree with what my colleague, Mr. Telegdi, just said. We need to find a way to make the work done by the IRB much more stable and ensure that appointments are made on the basis of merit or qualifications, that members are not always facing the possibility of not having their mandates renewed or not being able to continue their work. I think that continuity makes people feel like they are contributing and produces a sense of great satisfaction. So, we must find a way to ensure that these decisions are more stable to ensure a sense of continuity.

You probably are already aware that the backlog continues to grow and that the waiting is getting longer. However, the lives of refugees do not stop once they have been allowed to stay. All the paperwork that follows takes an extremely long time too. Among other things, it takes a long time for the permanent residency applications of successful refugees to be processed and for the family to be reunited. We are talking about approximately 18 months.

People in my riding, pharmacy technicians, professionals, have been admitted as refugees. Some come from the Congo, others from other regions. Yet, the waiting periods are even longer still in some African countries.

What could you bring to the IRB to ensure that families are reunited much faster? Once you hand down your decision, all the administration regarding the family reunification follows. In some cases, it can take up to five or six years for families to be reunited. So, if we look at it on a time continuum, we see that from the time when the individual filed their application until the time that their family is reunited, the waiting period in some areas in Africa is six, seven or eight years. This is absolutely inhuman. However, I don't think that the public is necessarily aware of this situation.

Could you tell us why it takes six months to hand down a decision and tell us, based on your experience processing refugee applications and your experience abroad with regard to those living in refugee camps, how important is it to quickly reunite the families?

[Krista Daley]

I'll turn to my colleagues, but I'm not sure it's something the board can really respond to. What I can tell you is that from a legal perspective, we attempt to process our family cases together; if a family comes to the board, we don't put the wife and the children with their own claim, and then the husband has a separate claim. We try to process the cases together.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

That is not what I meant. The application is processed at the same time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

You have 30 seconds. I have to manage the time here, because we have three or four people. Go ahead.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Yes, I know. I simply want to clarify my question because perhaps the interpretation...

I know that the reunification is processed at the same time. But, often, the primary applicant is here, but all the claimants and dependants are somewhere else. So, once the application has been approved, yes, they are all allowed in. However, the reunification takes a long time. In your work with CIC, do you also consider this?

[Ken Sandhu]

We have a very small piece of this pie in the refugee protection division. Our policy is, as the general counsel was just saying, that when we have a family member, we will join that family member's claim to the other member who's here. But you're talking about those who are left back in their own countries. We lose track of that. We do not have any jurisdiction over those matters. But for whoever comes to Canada and is a family member, we will join their claims as long as they tell us they are family members.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you.

Could we have Mr. Siksay, please? Then we have Mr. Komarnicki, and we'll see what we can do then.

Go ahead, Mr. Siksay.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Point of order.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

I call a point of order. I want to clarify something, Mr. Chair. I know that this issue has been raised regularly in this committee. When I ask questions in French, the interpretation may not always be perfect. It is clear to me, given the answer to my question, that the question has not been understood. I know that my time is up, but I am penalized because of the interpretation. I wanted to point out that the question was not understood. I would simply like, if possible, for the witness to answer my question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Of course, yes.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

I just want to make the committee aware of this fact because we have talked about it in this committee. I often have to repeat my questions two or three times, and my time then runs out.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

That's a very good point. Sometimes when we're getting up to the allotted time, I have to probably move it along a bit faster than usual. Sorry about that, Madame Faille.

Ms. Daley, if you have a comment on that, please respond.

[Krista Daley]

Would it help if I explained what I thought your question was?

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Yes.

[Krista Daley]

I think we probably understood.

What I understood was that after we have accepted a claim, there are often family reunification issues, and therefore your concern was whether there was anything the IRB could do in our process to try to aid in that family reunification post-IRB?

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Here is what I want to know. At the time in the process when the decision is made, there has to be an exchange of files with CIC. The file goes to Vegreville, where it is transferred to the embassy, which then processes it.

Is there any work to be done in this area to ensure faster reunification? Transfers can take a great deal of time. I have had a file for the past 12 months; Vegreville still doesn't have it. That was my question. I want to know whether anything was done to deal with this.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

We'll have to have a brief response.

[Krista Daley]

I personally don't know what the length of time is from the time we do a positive decision until it goes over to the department for their ongoing processing.